Jun 26, 2006 19:41
17 yrs ago
12 viewers *
French term
[le cholédoque] apparait meme infiltré avec une lumière
French to English
Medical
Medical (general)
cancer/abdominal echotomography
The write up of an abdominal echotomography of a cancer patient. Regarding the results of the examination of the choledochus:
Le cholédoque est difficile à visualiser. Il n'est pas dilaté. Il apparait meme infiltré avec une lumière pratiquement non indivisualisable.
Thanks!
Le cholédoque est difficile à visualiser. Il n'est pas dilaté. Il apparait meme infiltré avec une lumière pratiquement non indivisualisable.
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+3
58 mins
Selected
There is not a typical obstruction.
The CBD is hard to see on the ultrasound because the common bile duct itself seems infiltrated, squeezing the lumen from the walls of the duct itself. There is no apparent obstruction, which would actually dilate the lumen. Are they discussing cholangiocarcinoma?
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-06-26 20:45:15 GMT)
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By obstruction, I mean an occlusion at the distal end of the CBD. The process may well result in bile obstruction, but by a different mechanism than that, of say, a stone in the CBD.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-26 22:06:23 GMT)
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OK, here is the translation:
The CBD is poorly visualized. It is not dilated, in fact it appears infiltrated, with the lumen virtually indistinguishable.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2006-06-27 05:05:08 GMT)
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Hi Wendy.
I am adding this information now because at the time I entered the answer I was in the midst of a busy office and I didn't have the time to properly address the questions.
The ultrasonographer is painting a classic picture for cholangiocarcinoma.
The first translation issue is that "choledochus" is virtually never called that in English. It is the "common bile duct". The second issue is that the picture is not one of obstruction as caused by the typical scenario - a gall stone stuck in the the CBD. That would cause the CBD to become dilated. Neither is it a "partial obstruction" as suggested by another contributor. Rather, the lumen of the CBD is obscured because the walls of the structure have become thckened (with cancer) to the point that virtually nothing is left of the lumen. These are not metastases or polyps blocking the lumen - that would produce a picture similar to a gall stone. It is a difffuse infiltration of the tube's wall which is responsible.
See: Pathophysiology of cholangiocarcinoma:
Pathophysiology: Cholangiocarcinoma is a tumor that arises from the intrahepatic or extrahepatic biliary epithelium. More than 90% are adenocarcinomas, and the remainder are squamous cell tumors. The etiology of most bile duct cancers remains undetermined. Long-standing inflammation, as with primary sclerosing cholangitis (PSC) or chronic parasitic infection, has been suggested to play a role by inducing hyperplasia, cellular proliferation, and, ultimately, malignant transformation. Cholangiocarcinomas tend to grow slowly and to infiltrate the walls of the ducts, dissecting along tissue planes. Local extension occurs into the liver, porta hepatis, and regional lymph nodes of the celiac and pancreaticoduodenal chains. Life-threatening infection (cholangitis) may occur that requires immediate antibiotic intervention and aggressive biliary drainage.
Thus it is seen that the radiologist is painting a picture for the clinician which is quite distinctive. Once it is understood what he is getting at, it is easy to translate.
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-06-26 20:45:15 GMT)
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By obstruction, I mean an occlusion at the distal end of the CBD. The process may well result in bile obstruction, but by a different mechanism than that, of say, a stone in the CBD.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2006-06-26 22:06:23 GMT)
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OK, here is the translation:
The CBD is poorly visualized. It is not dilated, in fact it appears infiltrated, with the lumen virtually indistinguishable.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2006-06-27 05:05:08 GMT)
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Hi Wendy.
I am adding this information now because at the time I entered the answer I was in the midst of a busy office and I didn't have the time to properly address the questions.
The ultrasonographer is painting a classic picture for cholangiocarcinoma.
The first translation issue is that "choledochus" is virtually never called that in English. It is the "common bile duct". The second issue is that the picture is not one of obstruction as caused by the typical scenario - a gall stone stuck in the the CBD. That would cause the CBD to become dilated. Neither is it a "partial obstruction" as suggested by another contributor. Rather, the lumen of the CBD is obscured because the walls of the structure have become thckened (with cancer) to the point that virtually nothing is left of the lumen. These are not metastases or polyps blocking the lumen - that would produce a picture similar to a gall stone. It is a difffuse infiltration of the tube's wall which is responsible.
See: Pathophysiology of cholangiocarcinoma:
Pathophysiology: Cholangiocarcinoma is a tumor that arises from the intrahepatic or extrahepatic biliary epithelium. More than 90% are adenocarcinomas, and the remainder are squamous cell tumors. The etiology of most bile duct cancers remains undetermined. Long-standing inflammation, as with primary sclerosing cholangitis (PSC) or chronic parasitic infection, has been suggested to play a role by inducing hyperplasia, cellular proliferation, and, ultimately, malignant transformation. Cholangiocarcinomas tend to grow slowly and to infiltrate the walls of the ducts, dissecting along tissue planes. Local extension occurs into the liver, porta hepatis, and regional lymph nodes of the celiac and pancreaticoduodenal chains. Life-threatening infection (cholangitis) may occur that requires immediate antibiotic intervention and aggressive biliary drainage.
Thus it is seen that the radiologist is painting a picture for the clinician which is quite distinctive. Once it is understood what he is getting at, it is easy to translate.
Note from asker:
yes, not in this particular report, but in another one from the same hospital/same patient. "probable cholangiocarcinome diffus de type Klatskin IV" |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Marilyn Amouyal
: I agree with your proposed translation. The difficulty with imaging and pathology reports is understanding the descriptive language used.
11 hrs
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Thanks Marilyn!
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agree |
marie-christine périé
: that's how I understand it too
11 hrs
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Thank you M-C!
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agree |
Helen Genevier
14 hrs
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Thanks Helen!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to Francis for the description of lumiere - that one totally escaped me, and to James for his comments. But the points to go Michael for his helpful explanations."
20 mins
-1
14 mins
there is incomplete obstruction of the (terminal) choledocus
Cancer. Diabetes, Hormonal, and Metabolic Disorders. Digestive Tract. Heart and Blood Vessels ... The incomplete obstruction of the terminal choledocus. ...
merck2.micromedex.com/index.asp?page=pubmedAbstract&PubMedID=3588878&hilight=Pop%7CA - 22k - Résultat complémentaire
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Note added at 24 mins (2006-06-26 20:05:41 GMT)
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sorry, please read choledochus
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Note added at 41 mins (2006-06-26 20:23:03 GMT)
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surface and 2 patients had infiltration of the choledochus. resection line. These 24 were the ‘non-radical’ Whipple’s. operations. ...
taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/index/6EYW70QHWK7L9FQX.pdf
merck2.micromedex.com/index.asp?page=pubmedAbstract&PubMedID=3588878&hilight=Pop%7CA - 22k - Résultat complémentaire
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Note added at 24 mins (2006-06-26 20:05:41 GMT)
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sorry, please read choledochus
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Note added at 41 mins (2006-06-26 20:23:03 GMT)
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surface and 2 patients had infiltration of the choledochus. resection line. These 24 were the ‘non-radical’ Whipple’s. operations. ...
taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/index/6EYW70QHWK7L9FQX.pdf
Note from asker:
Yes, your answer is more what I am after. However, are you able to explain for me what the "lumiere" refers to in the source? How does this link with the idea of an obstruction? |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
cocotier
7 mins
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Thank you
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disagree |
Michael Barnett
: No, on the contrary.
33 mins
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no dilation but infiltrated would explain "difficult to see" wouldn't it Michael?
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disagree |
Ford Prefect
: no obstruction.///Where is obstruction mentioned in any of the context? Asker would presumably prefer a translation of the sentence to our hypothetical arguments over obstruction (or rather lack thereof) in nondliated CBDs.
1 hr
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in that case would it be visible? Dilation goes with obstruction but not immediately with partial obstruction leaving a lumen
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11 mins
choledochus (aka common biliary duct)
It's where the gall bladder and liver both spill bile/digestive enzymes.
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Note added at 13 mins (2006-06-26 19:54:55 GMT)
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Here's a reference from Dorland's:
http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands.jspzQzp...
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Note added at 46 mins (2006-06-26 20:28:19 GMT)
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Sorry I misunderstood what you're after. Do ignore me!
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Note added at 13 mins (2006-06-26 19:54:55 GMT)
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Here's a reference from Dorland's:
http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands.jspzQzp...
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Note added at 46 mins (2006-06-26 20:28:19 GMT)
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Sorry I misunderstood what you're after. Do ignore me!
51 mins
Lumière = the hollow of a duct/pipe
The French term "lumière" simply means the hollow of a tube, duct, etc. It is used in physics, biology, etc.
(type "lumière du conduit" on Google and see what you get.)
"Infiltré" probably means the choledochus is infiltrated by metastases to a point of obstruction where the "lumière" (the hollow of the choledochus) appears no longer delineated and/or discernible on the image.
See this as example to clarify the meaning of "lumière":
Celle-ci vont progressivement rétrécir **la lumière du conduit** au fur et à mesure qu'elles vont augmenter de volume. Leur développement reste encore ...
www.conseils-orl.com/otologie/exostose/exostose1.htm
(type "lumière du conduit" on Google and see what you get.)
"Infiltré" probably means the choledochus is infiltrated by metastases to a point of obstruction where the "lumière" (the hollow of the choledochus) appears no longer delineated and/or discernible on the image.
See this as example to clarify the meaning of "lumière":
Celle-ci vont progressivement rétrécir **la lumière du conduit** au fur et à mesure qu'elles vont augmenter de volume. Leur développement reste encore ...
www.conseils-orl.com/otologie/exostose/exostose1.htm
+1
1 hr
[the choledocus] also appears to be infiltrated and its lumen is practically indistinguishable
it isn't "infiltré avec une lumière". "Infiltration" refers to infiltration by the cancer. "Lumière" refers to the lumen of the choledocus which on this scan cannot be distinguished from other sections of the biliary ducts. Hence "It ALSO appears infiltrated (along with whatever was mentioned in the previous sentence)., and its lumen (inside of the tube) cannot be distinguished from anything else. Perhaps the lumen cannot even be identified on this image.
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-06-26 21:18:43 GMT)
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Imagine a comma after "infiltré"
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Note added at 1 hr (2006-06-26 21:18:43 GMT)
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Imagine a comma after "infiltré"
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Richard Benham
: This is outside my field, but I can't see "meme" meaning "also" in this context (or any other I can think of). It's my big problem with this passage:[...]"Even" seems most likely. Also "indivisualisable" is a worry.//That would be « de même »
32 mins
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How about "likewise"?///"in a like manner"? "in the same way"? What else could it mean?
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agree |
Francis Marche
: I share your reading: comma after infiltré. The lumen (cavity) is partly filled (with cancerous tissues/polyps?) and is therefore indistinguishable/unidentifiable in the scan imagery
2 hrs
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Thanks - although I share Michael Barnett's view of a diffuse infiltration affecting the walls rather than the lumen - but it's impossible to be certain from one sentence.
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Discussion