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Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

принесли рост в 3,7 раза

English translation:

brought about a 270% increase

Added to glossary by Elizabeth Ashworth
Jan 24, 2008 08:58
16 yrs ago
Russian term

принесли рост в 3,7 раза

Russian to English Bus/Financial Economics
I never know how to translate в ... раз constructions. Should I change it to a percentage? How do I do that?

Please make a recommendation.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 brought about a 270% increase
5 +2 triggered a 3.7 fold increase
4 +1 generated/resulted in/led to 3.7 times increase/growth in...
3 +1 in the past 2 years ... grew/increased by a factor of 3.7
3 provided 3.7 times growth

Discussion

David Knowles Jan 24, 2008:
... Looking at it more generally, if c is the arithmetic mean (average) of a and b, 1/c is not the average of 1/a and 1/b. It may not be far out, but it's not the same. Dunno if this helps!
David Knowles Jan 24, 2008:
To Jack: To take the harmonic mean of two fractions (say 1/3 and 1/2) you invert them (to get 2 and 3), take the arithmetic mean (2.5 or 5/2) and invert this again, to get 2/5 or 0.4 or 40%. ...
Jack Doughty Jan 24, 2008:
Yes, I accept that my fractional method must be wrong, but can anyone explain why?
Zamira B. Jan 24, 2008:
Jack, you had 10 apples, now you have 2.5 times less apples=4 apples, or 60 % less than you had before.
Elizabeth Ashworth (asker) Jan 24, 2008:
After I finish this text, I will try to work it out, too.
Jack Doughty Jan 24, 2008:
I tried to work it out in a response to David. I though if в 2 раза меньше is half, and в 3 раза меньше is a third, 2-1/2 раза меньше is five twelfths or 41.67%. But he divides 100 by 2.5 which comes to 40% & I think he's right. But can anyone explain it?
Ekaterina Filatova Jan 24, 2008:
which means - yes, mathematically it's all the same thing : )
Ekaterina Filatova Jan 24, 2008:
to bashworth: The use of the phrase ``factor of'' is very similar to the use of ``times''. For example, 1 quart is a factor of 4 smaller than 1 gallon, or 1 gallon is a factor of 4 bigger than 1 quart. www.astronomynotes.com/mathrev/s1.htm

Nik-On/Off Jan 24, 2008:
I mean the comment about "ten times less" versus "dropped by 90%"
David Knowles Jan 24, 2008:
If there were 100 murders in 2006 but only 10 in 2007, Russian switches to the 10 and says that 100 is ten times as much. English stays with the 100 and says that there was a drop of 90 from that, or 90%, and this value can never exceed 100%.
Nik-On/Off Jan 24, 2008:
To David. Your last remark is invaluable for me as a non-native. Thank you for that
David Knowles Jan 24, 2008:
The English system starts from a given point (say a year ago) and measures the increase or decrease since then (usually in percentages). The Russian/European system starts with the given point for increases, but the end point for decreases.
David Knowles Jan 24, 2008:
To Zamira: Editors tend not to be mathematicians. The treatment of percentages etc. in news reports and translationswould drive me mad, if I let it! "ten times less" etc. is usually a sign of translation. "dropped by 90%" is usually native English.
Elizabeth Ashworth (asker) Jan 24, 2008:
Interesting. It could be a stylistic choice, I'm not sure.

I think the biggest problem I'm having is being a word person rather than a mathematician.

Anyway, thanks for your comments.
Zamira B. Jan 24, 2008:
It does it mean the same mathematically. Re times: umm, we publish each quarter a bulletin, which gets proofed by a US editor who never changed our times into percentage. Is not times much clearer than percents, i thought it was.
Elizabeth Ashworth (asker) Jan 24, 2008:
Actually, I think it depends on the percentage. With 33%, 1/3 sounds better because it is more precise. When it goes over 100%, though, I think we tend to use percentages.
Elizabeth Ashworth (asker) Jan 24, 2008:
I'm not sure what we prefer as a general rule, but for some reason I want to put a percentage in here.

However, "increased by a factor of X" sounds good... but does it mean the same thing mathematically?
Jack Doughty Jan 24, 2008:
To Zamira: Your English teacher was right, but he/she probably didn't realize it was a problem either!
Zamira B. Jan 24, 2008:
I was taught by my English teacher that English natives prefer 1/3 instead of 33% etc. So I never knew that X times increase/decrease was a problem?
Elizabeth Ashworth (asker) Jan 24, 2008:
Thanks for your response. I tried using you idea and realized that I didn't provide enough context. The whole sentence is:
"Как видим, два прошедших года принесли рост в 3,7 раза. "

Right now I have:
"Thus we see that the last two years have brought (a) 3.7 times growth in the sector."

This doesn't work

Proposed translations

+5
9 mins
Selected

brought about a 270% increase

Yes, I find it confusing too. Рост в два раза means 100% growth, not 200%. And there is no such thing as рост в один раз, of course.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2008-01-24 09:12:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

With the context now provided, simply "brought a 270% increase" would be better.
Note from asker:
Yes this is what I have put for now as well. Thanks for your help — I hate it when this phrase comes up.
Peer comment(s):
agree David Knowles : This is a perpetual problem, even worse with reductions! I agree strongly with Jack.//2.5 times less is 40% (100/2.5) so there was a drop of 60%! It's the harmonic (not arithmetic) mean btwn 1/2 and 1/3, cos it's reciprocals.
14 mins
Thank you. Yes, indeed. //I think yoу're right, now I come to think of it, that's the method I've used in the past. But why is there a discrepancy between that and what I had here before? Can some mathematician explain that?
agree Mikhail Kropotov
1 hr
Thank you.
agree PoveyTrans (X)
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Alexander Kondorsky : yes, recalculate into percentages unless you can say doubled, tripled, decreased by a thrid, etc. The real problem comes when you have to translate увеличилось в 50000 раз!
4 hrs
Thank you.
agree Dorene Cornwell : Great discussion
19 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks (to you, and everyone who participated) for all your help! This will be useful in many texts to come."
3 mins

provided 3.7 times growth

.
Something went wrong...
+1
2 mins

generated/resulted in/led to 3.7 times increase/growth in...

-

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2008-01-24 09:04:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

you do not have to change it to percents, no need.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2008-01-24 09:13:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

with more context then:

"3.7 times increase has been achieved / registered/reached over the last two years" or something similar
Peer comment(s):
agree Igor Blinov
2 mins
спасибо
Something went wrong...
+1
43 mins

in the past 2 years ... grew/increased by a factor of 3.7

вот пример:
The constant-dollar value of this trade grew by a factor of 2.1 between 1975 and 1992.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1360-0443...

автор вроде ирландец. интересно узнать об этом мнение native speakers.
Note from asker:
Oh I forgot about this possibility. Thanks, I might end up using it.
Peer comment(s):
agree Angela Greenfield : perfectly viable version. Factor is definitely used in these situations in finance.
19 hrs
thanks, Angela!
Something went wrong...
+2
2 hrs

triggered a 3.7 fold increase

or growth, whichever suits better
Peer comment(s):
agree palilula (X) : Yes!
16 hrs
appreciate your enthusiasm
agree Angela Greenfield : stick with increase
17 hrs
will do, thanx
Something went wrong...
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