Glossary entry

Portuguese term or phrase:

grande lago/Grande Ogiva

English translation:

great lake/Great Ogive

Added to glossary by Oliver Simões
Apr 17, 2022 00:39
2 yrs ago
14 viewers *
Portuguese term

grande lago / Grande Ogiva

Portuguese to English Other Poetry & Literature Lyrical poetry
As far as I know, there are two possible interpretations for Portuguese "grande". It could mean either "big/large" or "great" (or both). I'm leaning towards the former.

Besides, I'm particularly interested in getting feedback on a couple of issues: (1) the shift from past tense (died) to the present (is born), as in the original, and (2) the change in meaning from "pasce" (pleases) to "nasce" (is born), somehow creating an antithesis with "morreu" (died). Any other comments/suggestions for improvement will be appreciated. Thank you.

Como uma voz de fonte que cessasse
(E uns para os outros nossos vãos olhares
Se admiraram), p'ra além dos meus palmares
De sonho, a voz que do meu tédio nasce

Parou... Apareceu já sem disfarce
De música longínqua, asas nos ares,
O mistério silente como os mares,
Quando morreu o vento e a calma pasce...

A paisagem longínqua só existe
Para haver nela um silêncio em descida
P'ra o mistério, silêncio a que a hora assiste...

E, perto ou longe, grande lago mudo,
O mundo, o informe mundo onde há a vida...
E Deus, a Grande Ogiva ao fim de tudo...
-- Fernando Pessoa

Tentative Translation:

Like a fountain voice that would cease
(And our vain eyes glanced at one another
With wonder), beyond my dream palm trees
The voice that is born from my boredom

Stopped... It appeared now undisguised
As faraway music, wings in the air,
The silent mystery like the seas,
When the wind died and calm is born...

The faraway landscape only exists
To have in itself a silence that descends
Into the mystery, the silence that time watches..

And, near or far, a big speechless lake,
The world, the unformed world where there is life...
And God, the Big Ogive at the end of all that exists...
© Oliver Simões

L2: EN_US
Register: poetic
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Lara Barnett

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Discussion

Lara Barnett Apr 18, 2022:
@ Oliver Exactly, this is the normal way to title a lake, as well as a couple of other geographical features that use "great" or "greater". we don't really say "big" or even "large" for such titles. It's not used like this. English is really dependent on fixed usage. For example "Greater London" or "Great Yarmouth" (in UK). Although that doesn't mean that you can't talk about the places using big or large as part of your conversation or narrative, it is just usage for place or geographical names.
Oliver Simões (asker) Apr 18, 2022:
Lara Indeed. There's an area of the US known as "The Great Lakes": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes
Lara Barnett Apr 17, 2022:
i would use "Great". But that is common usage for lakes anyway.

Proposed translations

+2
7 hrs
Selected

great lake/Great Ogive

Translating poetry is mostly a matter of opinion, but to me it sounds odd to describe God as "big". And a lake could be big, but "great" fits the declamatory tone better.

"Big" simply means large in size, while "great" implies importance.

The only issue is the repetition of "grande", but that must be deliberate, so I'd keep it.
Peer comment(s):

agree Clauwolf
3 hrs
agree José Patrício
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Phil."
8 hrs

large lake / Great Ogive

Main issue:

I think having lake as large, and God as Great creates the distinction between creator and creation.

Issue 1 - The shift tense in the same sentence. I would keep them both in the present.

When the wind dies, and calm is born... (I would add a comma after dies).

Issue 2 - As Phil said, poetry is subjective, but I liked the change.

Nice job anyway!
Something went wrong...
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