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und zwar

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Der Start ist das Ziel

English translation:

It's taking part that counts

Added to glossary by British Diana
Dec 16, 2009 12:47
14 yrs ago
German term

Der Start ist das Ziel

German to English Marketing Internet, e-Commerce
Pressemitteilung - Grand Prix Migros Kampagne 2010 - Der Start ist das Ziel!
Unter dem Motto «Der Start ist das Ziel» startet das grösste Kinder-Skirennen Europas in die Saison 2010.

I know what is meant and am merely looking for a clever way of phrasing it.

Many thanks in advance
Stephen
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 It's taking part that counts
3 +3 Starters are winners
2 +2 It's all about being there
4 The goal is to get to the starting line
3 The starting line is our goal
3 be there or be square
3 beginning means winning
References
background info, straight from the Migros' mouth :-)
"Ziel"
Change log

Dec 30, 2009 07:38: British Diana Created KOG entry

Discussion

writeaway Dec 19, 2009:
Not that incorrect, Steffen I wasn't referring to the original team arrangement open to all. Of course the badge site is a site-within-the-site. It's not just one closed forum like the membership forum. It's an out-of-sight site being run exclusively for badge holders and apparently it's also used as sounding board for new ideas, features etc. The great unwashed are no longer consulted at all. :-)
Steffen Walter Dec 17, 2009:
Incorrect, writeaway... ... except that there is indeed a <B>forum</B> open exclusively to "P" members. To speak of a "site within the site" in this respect would be exaggerating matters IMHO, and there is no such thing as "secret terms help" for P badge wearers only. The private team option has been in place for several years - way before the "P club" was launched.
Johanna Timm, PhD Dec 16, 2009:
no secrets Any paying member of the site can create a private team:http://www.proz.com/faq/networking/translation_teams.html#ho...
More about the secret P club:
http://www.proz.com/faq/4864#4864
Lancashireman Dec 16, 2009:
Top secret Thanks for the insight into the hidden workings of the site, writeaway. As this is all hush-hush, I suppose we can expect a mod to delete on the catch-all grounds of ‘non-linguistic comment’.
writeaway Dec 16, 2009:
@ Diana The P site is a site-within-the-site, hidden away and only visible/accessible to people who have the red Proz P badge. It has its own forums, discussions, terms help and teams-so a life of its own. Not for us 'ordinary folk'.
As for rules, there are no rules for or against this type of question, just a lot of debate and discussions in the regular site Kudoz forums. Some of us don't agree with posting/answering them but others do. So it's up to the individual.
@Stephen: Is your jaw wired??? What about Christmas dinner? Just liquid refreshments? Ouch! Good timing as they say in the music world. Gute Besserung! :-)
Monika Elisabeth Sieger Dec 16, 2009:
@British Diana The same question I wanted to ask as well but did not dare to do so!
British Diana Dec 16, 2009:
@writeaway - about the rules Now, you've got me puzzling. Can you give chapter and verse of the forums you mention which explain what KudoZ is or is not there for - and what is the "secret P site" ?
I would like to know in order not to do something "irregular" by mistake. BTW I am only an ordinary ProZ member.
Helen Shiner Dec 16, 2009:
Stephen How awful and just before Christmas! Hope you are not in too much pain and that you are back to good form very soon!
Monika Elisabeth Sieger Dec 16, 2009:
@Stephen get better soon!
Jonathan MacKerron Dec 16, 2009:
sorry to hear about your jaw gute Besserung!
writeaway Dec 16, 2009:
@ sivara no, I don't have it 'wrong'. This is more than just 'help'. it's "merely providing a clever way to phrase it'. Merely that. Read the forums-you'll see I'm not the one who has it "wrong".
Anyway Stephen has explained the extenuating circumstances in this case. But there are private teams/forums on the secret P site for this and imo, brainstorming is better than a right/wrong question/answer.
Monika Elisabeth Sieger Dec 16, 2009:
@writeaway Don't you think that you got it wrong?
We are helping each other to translate on a avery high standard and we are supposed to help each other!
And I think it is quite sensible to ask such a question!
Stephen Sadie (asker) Dec 16, 2009:
@writeaway Of course it is, nonetheless this forum provides help and I am stuck trying to find something. I also help other members frequently. Moreover my jaw is broken which definitely catches me in poor form!
writeaway Dec 16, 2009:
merely looking for a clever way of phrasing it ??? isn't that what you were hired to do?

Proposed translations

+3
2 hrs
Selected

It's taking part that counts

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/idioms_maxims_sa...

I found this and thinks it fits here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-12-16 15:21:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think , not thinks (or perhaps methinks)
Peer comment(s):
agree franglish
1 hr
Thanks, franglish !
neutral Lancashireman : Indeed, a typically ‘British’ interpretation. Since the slogan was conceived by a German, don’t you think we need something more along the lines of “Victory starts here”?
2 hrs
Are you saying that the Krauts are more competitive than the Brits? Do you want half of our peers to come down on you like a ton of bricks? Seriously though, this is a ski competition for children and I think the slogan does NOT encourage "triumphalism"
agree Bernhard Sulzer : that is the sentiment, I believe.
22 hrs
Thanks, Bernhard !
agree Kim Bakkers
5 days
Thanks, Kim !
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+2
8 mins

It's all about being there

for starters

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2009-12-16 12:58:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Taking part is what counts
Peer comment(s):
agree Monika Elisabeth Sieger : Your second version is nice!
19 mins
thx - or "it's not about winning, it's about being there"
agree Bernhard Sulzer : That is the sentiment (IMO); maybe also something with "participating".
1 day 40 mins
Something went wrong...
52 mins

The goal is to get to the starting line

This should sum up the basic idea
Something went wrong...
1 hr

The starting line is our goal

Maybe not that groovy but it conveys the same idea. I presume this is about getting children ready and up for starting competitive skiing.
Something went wrong...
+3
1 hr

Starters are winners

Get to the start and you've already won


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-12-16 14:38:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Beginners are winners [double meaning might be apt if they're not very experienced]

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-12-16 14:41:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To begin is to win
Peer comment(s):
agree Lancashireman : The only solution so far that includes the obligatory element of triumphalism.
2 hrs
agree ArnoTranslat (X) : or: Starting is winning.
10 hrs
agree Bernhard Sulzer : or every starter is a winner
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

be there or be square

why Migros would want that in English though is beyond me, ;-) their chicken was cool enough

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2009-12-16 19:10:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

look, they wan kids to come and have fun and compete, if they don't, and in Switzerland a kid without skis is considered half-handicapped, they're square... get the drift (as in snow-drift). Pardon the puns but it is snowing here
Something went wrong...
7 hrs

beginning means winning

nur so eine Idee
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

7 hrs
Reference:

background info, straight from the Migros' mouth :-)

"Europas grösstes Skirennen für Jugendliche zwischen 8 und 15 Jahren bietet für jeden Skifahrer ein unvergessliches Erlebnis auf der Skipiste! Ob Beginner oder Ski-Crack: ***Ganz nach dem Motto „Der Start ist das Ziel“ ist Jedermann am Grand Prix Migros willkommen***. Vergangenes Jahr verzeichnete das Aushängeschild des Swiss-Ski Breitensports einen neuen Teilnehmerrekord! 6’650 Jugendliche im Alter zwischen 8 und 15 Jahren meldeten sich schweizweit für eines der 13 Ausscheidungsrennen des legendären Grand Prix Migros an."
Reference:

http://www.gp-migros.ch/grand-prix-migros/philosophie.html

Something went wrong...
1 day 10 hrs
Reference:

"Ziel"

I saw Johanna's info and looked up more info myself.
I is clearly a message for all participants that "participating in the race is the goal"; that's what it's all about and not what I took it to mean at first, namely 'once we (M) have successfully started (organized) the race, we (M) have reached our goal (although that could be another goal).

see:
http://www.werbewoche.ch/werbewoche/news/marketing_kommunika...

Just wanted to add a couple of thoughts. Am I correct that you are not looking to create a new slogan in English (well paid for by Migros) but that you are simply translating a news item - or is it indeed a press release by Migros? In any case, I believe one could simply convey the meaning of the slogan in parentheses.

Now "Ziel" with regard to skiing means most and foremost the area at the finish line, at the bottom of the hill. Of course it's everybody's "goal" to get there, and not everybody can be the winner of the race - although the sentiment is clearly that everyone does indeed win by just participating - or going over the starting line.
Closest to the German version would IMO be "the starting line is the finish line" or even the "the start is the finish" but in English "finish" does not really convey the meaning "goal" as the word "Ziel" does in German. And if you substitute "goal" for "finish (line)", then the meaning of the area at the bottom of the hill is lost.
That's why I believe it would possibly (for the explanation of the slogan) be better to not use too literal of a translation.

Hope you are feeling better soon!
Something went wrong...
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