Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

getrost immer mit gegenwaertigem Geiste

English translation:

(his spirit at ease) and with full presence of mind

Added to glossary by Timoshka
Mar 19, 2012 19:53
12 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

getrost immer mit gegenwaertigem Geiste

German to English Other Genealogy
This comes from an old (1789) entry in the church registers, concerning the death of a prominent citizen: "Auf seinem Krankenlager hat er jeder Zeit Geduld Muth Standhaftigkeit und bewundernswuerdige Geistes Kraeffte und Vertrauen auf Gott und seinen Tod ohne Furcht getrost immer mit gegenwaertigem Geiste erwartet."

Discussion

Helen Shiner Mar 22, 2012:
@ Kirsten I do think that is over-complicating matters in the extreme. Jewishness is irrelevant. What is important is natural EN.
Kirsten Bodart Mar 22, 2012:
@Helen That is a reference to a Jewish person, for a start. Catholics and also protestants, I suppose the latter, believe that a dying person should be compus mentis to receive confessions (Penance), Holy Communion (Viaticum) and Anointment. In the latter, the eyes, ears, nostrils, mouth and hands are anointed (in some countries more parts of the body) which refer to the senses. The confession and Holy Communion, though, imply praying and in that, the sick person who receives his last rites (as this man must have done) needs to be conscious to do so and needs to be able to pray for his own soul, needs to reconcile himself with God to pass peacefully. I grant you that there is another meaning for 'senses', but putting that in a church death register would be confusing. It is not because we tend to use this formulation now (and normally it is limited to 'peacefully' which I suppose contains the two) that it has always been like this. Unless you are referring to Plato and the distinction between mind (soul) and spirit which the Christian faith somewhat endorses, but then senses doesn't come in either.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04660c.htm
Johanna Timm, PhD Mar 21, 2012:
description of the death of William III in 1702 http://tiny.cc/wdsfbw
(posted as reference already but maybe overlooked?) seems to be a historically appropriate formulation, seeing that the German church register entry mentioned in this question is dated in 1798. And at least it’s now established that mit gegenwärtigem Geiste does not refer to the presence of the Holy Spirit!

Lancashireman Mar 21, 2012:
presence of mind ... ... suggests that the deceased showed initiative and played some sort of active, organisational role in his own death.
http://tinyurl.com/7ytxhwk
Helen Shiner Mar 21, 2012:
@Kirsten You might like to note the very natural formulation of being in full command of one's senses as exemplified here:
“Yohanan [ben Zakkai] died in full command of his senses, entirely aware of the next step in his life. Exemplifying a good death, he expressed his humility before the judgment that awaited. As he lay dying, no sage represented in the classical writings of Judaism cited Ps. 22:l, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” But if they died serenely, it was not with an excess of self-confidence or pride. For, with all humanity, all of them expected to come before God in judgment, and none took vindication for granted. Death takes place in the context of faith, and the spirituality of Judaism comes to concrete embodiment in that larger context as well. For sages and the Torah that they shaped for all of holy Israel, not only did death form a natural stage in human life, but it also marked a step on a longer journey, one that led to eternal life.
http://onedaringjew.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/ben-zakkai-juda...
It is, indeed, everything to do with it. And it is very often said of a person on their death bed. One for the natives perhaps?
Horst Huber (X) Mar 20, 2012:
Of course it is an adverb, to go with "erwartet", and describes the mental attitude, as does "mit gegewärtigem Geiste", also an adverbial phrase.
Kirsten Bodart Mar 20, 2012:
getrost could this not be an adverb? As in 'without fear, confidently, and with a conscious mind'? Though there is still an experession in Dutch you can use with 'getroosten' as a verb, German only seems to have kept the past participle.
Horst Huber (X) Mar 20, 2012:
"Getrost" alludes to the "Tröstungen der Religion", as in "Most gracious spirit, give me thy comfort ...".

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

(his spirit at ease) and with full presence of mind

mit gegenwärtigem Geiste= "fully aware" ( vgl. "geistesgegenwärtig")

Topos der Gegenüberstellung von praesenti corpore (mit gegenwärtigem Leibe) - praesenti animo
(mit gegenwärtigem Geist)
http://tiny.cc/crrfbw

Beliebte Formulierung in einer bestimmten historischen Epoche:
z.B.
„und vollendete, unter der äußersten Schwachheit seines Körpers, mit gegenwärtigem Geist….“
http://tiny.cc/porfbw

example from a contemporary obituary
He knew he was dying, and he did it with full presence of mind.
http://theroyaltrophy.com/site_2012/?p=1490

…and from a historical ob.:
“He died with a clear and full presence of mind”
http://tiny.cc/wdsfbw

Peer comment(s):

agree Kirsten Bodart : It has to do with the fact that one cannot receive the last rights if one's mind is not conscious. Nothing to do with senses.
16 hrs
right, it's about the mind; I also like "confidently" that you suggested in the discussion box for "getrost"
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Vielen Dank!"
+3
12 hrs

in good cheer and in full command of his senses

Since Montaigne wants to critique the pretensions of the philosophers’ ability to face
dying and death in good cheer

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/org/conference/2003/krom.pdf

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days18 hrs (2012-03-22 14:52:43 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

@ Kirsten: I fail to detect any inference as to the man's confession.
Peer comment(s):

agree Helen Shiner : A much better formulation.
1 hr
Thanks, Helen.
agree Rebecca Garber
6 hrs
Thank you Rebecca
agree Lancashireman : Sorry not to have seen this Q earlier.
1 day 12 hrs
Thanks, Andrew. Appreciated just the same - or even more!
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