Conor McAuley Aug 31, 2022:

Yes You've got it with "régulier".

Even "performant" sounds a bit modern to me, it wasn't used so much 20 years ago.

I don't understand about "performant" in English – it has been borrowed as is? Can you give me an example of usage? Certainly a weird one, but they definitely owe us a few words!

Mpoma Aug 31, 2022:

Régulier ? Before the idea of borrowing an English word became the norm, there was always this word régulier: "performance régulière sur toute une saison".

I think the only rationale for using "consistent" instead is that it sounds sexier to your average football pundit.

Sometimes things work in the other direction of course: the word "performant" has crept into English and now crouches there like a toad.

In this case I suspect most people using it think it is a genuine English word, taken perhaps from some technical domain like engine design. This is the case, but it only entered those technical domains because engineers thought the French word was infinitely sexier than "efficient".

Conor McAuley Aug 31, 2022:

Well, "constant" sounds clumsy, and "consistent" is wrong, so it's a right bind, isn't it?

Why not "consistent, comme on dit en anglais"?

American football commentary is full of English terms and I think that's fair enough, and "soccer" commentators in France have mostly given up on saying "un coup de pied du coin du terrain" (a corner)...

But hold on, maybe something with "performant" (which is in Larousse): "sur plusieurs matchs", "sur toute une/la saison"?

Lucky we have time to discuss such serious matters!

Mpoma Aug 31, 2022:

Valid point ... you're saying, I think, that a language is an ocean, and the idea of nailing a living language down in dictionaries was always going to be ludicrous. Agree, and no time more than now, and above all for languages other than English.

There was a great question a couple of years ago where someone was transcribing a tape and thought they heard "timideur". Some clever Prozzer realised this was "team-leader".

But I really don't think that in all registers in French people would freely drop in the English word "consistent" and not know that that's what they were doing. Yes, something like this might cause confusion, because of the existence of consistant, but I doubt whether it would cause that much, because consistant is the kind of word French kids are going to use, e.g. in the kitchen. So my bet is that the football commentators know full well that they're using an English word.

I revise my view of the ST: they are no doubt fully aware here. Which means this isn't a translation question: one should simply translate by "to be consistent with", as I suggested in my earlier entry.

Conor McAuley Aug 31, 2022:

"Consistant" Well, for one, I don't want to finish on 13 Discussion entries...

My unspoken point about "consistant" is that because the word exists in French, and "consistent" exists in English (but means something very different), people think they mean the same thing (and mostly such pairs of words do match up with EN and FR, the false friends are actually the exceptions, statistically speaking).

The point I'm making here is that, for a French speaker, it's a reasonable bet that "consistent" exists in French too and means the same thing as in English, but no, in fact, it doesn't, and the result is horrible Franglais.

Watch an English Premier League football match live on Canal+ and you'll be lucky if they get to kick-off without saying "consistent" instead of "constant".
A player plays at least reasonably well in most matches – he's consistent in English and "constant" in French.

"L'importance d'être Constant", as the great man wrote.

Mpoma Aug 31, 2022:

Anglicism - a couple of misunderstandings @FPC Sorry, no, you are wrong: this word is not a French adjective. It is not present in TLFi or any French dictionaries. If you are claiming that it is currently used by some French people that is a different matter. Consciously or not, they are then using an anglicism. It is NOT a French adjective. You are also wrong about the following:

@Conor Sorry, you've also made a false point here. Consistant has nothing whatsoever to do with English "consistent", nor with the adjectival Anglicism as used in the ST. Consistant in French means "substantial; nourishing; thick" etc.

In a later post I see you seem to mention that this is a faux ami.

Conor McAuley Aug 29, 2022:

To Carol Otherwise you use "to" to introduce the list. Same difference, as they say. The gerund is awkward and uncolloquial to me.
Also I would separate style and issues where right and wrong exist concretely.

The "To" introduction might be boring to you, but that's the way it has been done for years. Job Descriptions, like contracts, are not intended as entertainment.


To Mpoma (Chris): oh yes, it is a false friend, but...

Put it this away, I use to send lists of mistakes in French texts to a client about 15 years ago...I never got much thanks for doing so or got paid extra for it...

Daryo took offence at me saying "It's not our job" a few days ago, but well, sometimes it's not our job.

My experience is that very few people can write properly in French, up to and including lawyers (or the legal assistants they dictate to, anyway).

FPC Aug 29, 2022:

Mpoma In fact I did notice it, as I said in my comment just before yours ;)
It does exist however and can be adjectival with the form "consistant/e" but not with same meaning as its English false friend.

Carol Gullidge Aug 29, 2022:

@Conor erm, in fact "TO do this, TO do that, and TO do the other" might not be the most natural way to phrase what amounts to a "list of duties". The use of the infinitive without "to" in a to-do list sounds quite natural. As would the use of a gerund, e.g., updating/upgrading ..., although in fact none of us has yet suggested this usage.
The omission of "to" in these suggestions is simply a matter of style and context (a list), and does not represent a grammatical error.
Imagine if this had been a long list of duties, how tedious it would look to include "TO" at the beginning of every line!

Conor McAuley Aug 28, 2022:

With an A, "consistant" is ok in French:

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/consistant/18...

Conor McAuley Aug 28, 2022:

Nobody got the point about "To", either, apart from me.

Job description:
- TO do this;
- TO do that:
- TO do the other.

Conor McAuley Aug 28, 2022:

Good point, but we get the meaning.

The word is...erm...constantly used in football coverage instead of..."constant".
A player plays well in most matches.

It's the French who are messing with and abusing their language, we're just adjusting to that.

Mpoma Aug 28, 2022:

O. M. G. Um... there is no word "consistent" in French!*

I am frankly gobsmackèd that no-one appears to have made this observation. The French for English "consistent" is cohérent.

Therefore this is a glaring and execrable anglicism. Therefore there is no reason not to "translate" this "French" phrase as "in order to be consistent with...". And therefore also it would be a good idea to mention to the client the fact that the author of this text is not a French-speaker (or -squeaker).


* Actually there is: it is the 3rd pl. present indicative (or subjunctive) of the verb consister, "to consist; entail; involve". It can never, ever, ever, ever, **ever** be an adjective.

FPC Aug 28, 2022:

The text actually looks like a back translation from English and the person who wrote it used a calque from English).

Lara Barnett (asker) Aug 27, 2022:

On yes, I already put: "Update info on "well tops" of recent exploration wells for consistency of seismic data and the stratigraphic diagram."

So, I am looking for something that may sound a bit stronger, or be more concise.

Emmanuella Aug 27, 2022:

Peut-être ' so that they are consistent with ...'

Emmanuella Aug 27, 2022:

Mettre à jour les 'well tops' ... afin qu'ils/elles correspondent aux données et au schéma...
Quelque chose de ce genre.

Emmanuella Aug 27, 2022:

Qui a écrit ce texte ? Ce n'est pas la personne qui doit être 'consistente avec'.