| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | A reviewer tried to be smart but failed Thread poster: Zolboo Batbold
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Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 05:08
Greek to English
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| Agencies have no defense against that | Oct 21, 2021 |
Philippe Etienne wrote:
In fact, I think PEMT is becoming a language of its own right.
Philippe
I noted the same 5-6 years ago, and if I remember well there are posts of mine in this site that "new translators are getting trained by the machine, instead of them training the machine".
The result is that awkward expressions are more and more accepted (confirmation bias) by the translators, mostly due to lack of sufficient time. The result is that "they all sound the same".
Within the next 2 years, most major end-clients will have noticed. And will buy their own MT engines or GoogleTrans subscriptions. Especially if easy money tightens, forcing them to cut expenses.
Agencies do not have a defense against that, because they are not translators themselves. Especially the large ones would have to delete their TMs and start from scratch, but they have already sufficiently pissed most of their veteran translators who are perhaps the only ones with "old experience" to give to each client something different than MT.
And they can't re-propose a new higher price schedule to their clients to accommodate non-MT translation.
| | | | jyuan_us 
United States
Local time: 06:08
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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| I think there is a way to translate "running" or at least paraphrase it | Oct 21, 2021 |
It really doesn't harm to translate it. Also, your translation, which may be idiomatic and fluent, might have a slightly different meaning, hence it could be justifiable to spot it as a minor inaccuracy.
Just a thought.
| | | | Zolboo Batbold
Italy
Local time: 12:08
Member (2021)
English to Mongolian
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TOPIC STARTER SITE LOCALIZER | From a logical standpoint | Oct 22, 2021 |
jyuan_us wrote:
It really doesn't harm to translate it. Also, your translation, which may be idiomatic and fluent, might have a slightly different meaning, hence it could be justifiable to spot it as a minor inaccuracy.
Just a thought.
From a logical standpoint there's really no difference. The network was updated, and as a result of the update the network has been equipped with the latest software → It has the latest software → The network has been updated WITH the latest software.
| | | | | No point trying to be smart back | Oct 22, 2021 |
Although I only know one of Bolboo's languages I can understand both sides.
The client obviously wants an almost literal translation where every word in the source text is accounted for because he can easily and quickly "check" (review) it using software , indeed PEMT
Bolboo wants an elegant turn of phrase or a more concise way of expressing the idea or possibly a more pleasing speech melody. This is the 20th century approach, unfortunately redundant in many cases toda... See more Although I only know one of Bolboo's languages I can understand both sides.
The client obviously wants an almost literal translation where every word in the source text is accounted for because he can easily and quickly "check" (review) it using software , indeed PEMT
Bolboo wants an elegant turn of phrase or a more concise way of expressing the idea or possibly a more pleasing speech melody. This is the 20th century approach, unfortunately redundant in many cases today!
It's really a waste of time arguing small points of linguistics with the client, although it may be satisfying to do so here with fellow-translators. The client is just not interested in these nuances.
So it is unlikely that a good professional relationship will develop from this situation. ▲ Collapse
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 12:08
French to English
British Diana wrote:
It's really a waste of time arguing small points of linguistics with the client, although it may be satisfying to do so here with fellow-translators. The client is just not interested in these nuances.
I agree with all your message and especially this. It would only be worth bringing it up if there's a whole pattern of changes like this, turning your target file into a clunky plodding text where meaning gets bogged down in too many words, instead of a sleek, pithy text that the reader will understand and take on board easily.
If there's just this one instance, I'd say to let it go.
I work in creative fields, with far bigger stakes in the subjective appreciation of my prose, rather than tech stuff where KISS is much more of a thing. So I often get reviewers doing this to my work. I have learned to find at least one point for which I can say "this is a mostly subjective change, it doesn't matter much either way so keep it like that if you want" just to show that I'm not a nit-picker who can't take any criticism. OK, actually I am, but I have to at least pretend not to be if I want my client to like me. At some point, they'll stop caring about the language and start worrying whether they'll ever get to the end of the haggling. Clients reach this point far more quickly than you! If you continue to haggle obliviously, as British Diana says, they very probably won't want to continue working with you.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:08
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Zolboo Batbold wrote:
"Setup complete! Your network is now up to date and running the latest software."
The reviewer decides to downgrade my translation for not translating the word "running".
For software strings, some reviewers prefer a more literal approach, just in case the sentence does actually distinguish between having something installed and having something running. Some reviewers are, however, unaware that this is just their preference, and that it is okay to translate software strings with the implied bits implied. When translators in such a project realise this about their reviewer, they adapt their translations -- no problem. But a test translation reviewer should be flexible, IMO.
I recently updated various software packages on my computer, and some of them are "running" and some of them don't run unless I make them run. Who knows if this distinction is important for your client.
The important point is whether you had the opportunity to rebut. If you want the job, but the reviewer was too strict or applied a must-be-literal kind of a filter when that wasn't specified in the style guide, you should really try to explain this to the client. Reviewers sometimes make comments about test translators privately, about whether the translator "could be" good with "just a bit of training", so take a chance.
| | | | | Obsessing about reviewers... | Oct 23, 2021 |
is not healthy, IMO. Go on that trip and take your camera with you... 
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Were you using a shared translation memory? | Oct 24, 2021 |
Some rules of thumb of handmade translation are in fact capital crimes against your collaborators on shared TMs.
Examples:
1. The EM DASH, public enemy number 1. Just don't. If it isn't in the source, don't add it. In fact, even if it is, save everyone some time (from post-editing long lists of whatever with SOME matches em dashed and others hyphenated) and just let the dang thing die already.
2. Expanding/explaining abbreviations on first use. NOOOOOO. Because tr... See more Some rules of thumb of handmade translation are in fact capital crimes against your collaborators on shared TMs.
Examples:
1. The EM DASH, public enemy number 1. Just don't. If it isn't in the source, don't add it. In fact, even if it is, save everyone some time (from post-editing long lists of whatever with SOME matches em dashed and others hyphenated) and just let the dang thing die already.
2. Expanding/explaining abbreviations on first use. NOOOOOO. Because translation memory doesn't know it's for a first use.
3. Needless rearrangment of word order for elegance. Pollutes the hell out of the TM.
...although, on the bright side, knocks down the match %, helping keep prices up in the topic.
Philippe Etienne wrote:
Although not a native speaker, I find the sentence without "running" is not missing any info and feels more "elegant". It reminded me of a strange review I saw lately. And I have a theory...
In the review I was forwarded, most changes were in fact added words that I had dropped in the translation because they were irrelevant, structure changes because the translation was too "different" from the source structure and stuff like that.
For once I was glad there were so many changes. The outcome sounded like, yes, PEMT.
I wonder to what extent such reviewers wouldn't apply MT to the source, compare both versions and make changes accordingly, without actually reflecting at/being bothered with the core meaning and flow of a text.
Maybe PEMT is the new normal (I hear everybody using a CAT tool uses it) and since people are so much used to seeing it everywhere online and using it for everything that diverging from it now scares them.
In fact, I think PEMT is becoming a language of its own right.
Philippe
[Edited at 2021-10-24 05:47 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-10-24 05:48 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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