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el peso concejil

English translation: weighhouse / weigh-house / weigh house

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:el peso concejil
English translation:weighhouse / weigh-house / weigh house
Entered by: Robert Forstag

14:19 Nov 12, 2020
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History / Spain / History / Middle Ages
Spanish term or phrase: el peso concejil
From a paper on the portrayal of women in the Middle Ages in primary school textbooks in Spain:

Se ha sacado a la luz el listado de oficios femeninos “acostumbrados”: panaderas, regateras, hilanderas y costureras, parteras, nodrizas, criadas... Asimismo, se han hecho visibles los espacios asociados al mundo laboral de las mujeres: la casa, la fuente, el mercado, el horno, el molino, el río, ***el peso concejil***... Y también la contribución femenina en los talleres y negocios artesanos que aparecieron en el paisaje urbano de la época.

*******
It seems like the sense is "officially determined weights and measures." Any thoughtful ideas appreciated. Thank you.
Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 11:08
(municipal) weighhouse
Explanation:
See the discussion entries. It does also mean market, hence a 3 rather than a 4.

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Note added at 1 hr (2020-11-12 16:09:26 GMT)
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A weighhouse or weighing house is a public building at or within which goods are weighed. Most of these buildings were built before 1800, prior to the establishment of international standards for weights. As public control of the weight of goods was very important, they were run by local authorities who would also use them for the levying of taxes on goods transported through or sold within the city. Therefore, weigh houses would often be near a market square or town centre.

Between 1550 and about 1690 people accused of witchcraft were at times brought to a weigh house in order to be subjected to a "witch test" to "prove" their innocence for payment (as nobody was deemed to be a witch after this test[1]). If a person was found to be lighter than a set weight, he or she was deemed guilty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_house

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Note added at 3 hrs (2020-11-12 18:11:29 GMT)
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I've just realised it says "mercado" earlier in the sentence, so it can't mean market.
Selected response from:

philgoddard
United States
Grading comment
I find your reasoning compelling. Thank you, Phil. Thanks also to everyone else who offered suggestions and comments.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2(municipal) weighhouse
philgoddard
3 +1the Council's scales
Sergio Kot
3municipal scales
Muriel Vasconcellos
3responsibilities of counsel
Lisa Rosengard
Summary of reference entries provided
Ana Vozone
Peso concejil
Toni Castano

Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the Council's scales


Explanation:
Hunch. Or something else, related.

Sergio Kot
Israel
Native speaker of: Native in HebrewHebrew, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Toni Castano: Your interpretation is correct. "Peso concejil" = "peso(s) del Concejo" o "de la villa". "Scales" is right. A historical term, not easy to understand at once.
56 mins
  -> Muchas gracias Toni.
neutral  philgoddard: I don't think people will understand this.
1 hr
  -> So is the source. Incomprehensible at first.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
(municipal) weighhouse


Explanation:
See the discussion entries. It does also mean market, hence a 3 rather than a 4.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2020-11-12 16:09:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A weighhouse or weighing house is a public building at or within which goods are weighed. Most of these buildings were built before 1800, prior to the establishment of international standards for weights. As public control of the weight of goods was very important, they were run by local authorities who would also use them for the levying of taxes on goods transported through or sold within the city. Therefore, weigh houses would often be near a market square or town centre.

Between 1550 and about 1690 people accused of witchcraft were at times brought to a weigh house in order to be subjected to a "witch test" to "prove" their innocence for payment (as nobody was deemed to be a witch after this test[1]). If a person was found to be lighter than a set weight, he or she was deemed guilty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_house

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2020-11-12 18:11:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I've just realised it says "mercado" earlier in the sentence, so it can't mean market.

philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 38
Grading comment
I find your reasoning compelling. Thank you, Phil. Thanks also to everyone else who offered suggestions and comments.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sergio Kot: Yes, that's the general idea.
1 hr
agree  EirTranslations
1 hr
neutral  Toni Castano: Please read my second reference: "el concejo fijó unas tiendas que contaban con un peso concejil, con el fin de concertar con él los pesos de los comercios". Just wondering how a weighhouse can be put in such a place.
1 hr
  -> It sounds like the town could also appoint certain shops to act as weighhouses. The previous items in the list are places where woman were found, so it can 't simply mean a set of scales.
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
municipal scales


Explanation:
See:

Entrepreneurs and Entrepreneurship in Medieval Europe ...erenow.net › the-invention-of-enterprise › 7.php
Yet the European Middle Ages-traditionally defined as the millennium from ... it boasted two major commercial buildings, **several municipal scales**, and the huge ...

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Note added at 8 hrs (2020-11-12 22:27:02 GMT)
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Or "city scales." See:

https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01951624/document
"A weigh house - **also called city scales** - was a public building within
which goods brought to the town by merchants were weighed
according to the units established by the city authorities.
Strongly related with trade and municipal authorities, weigh houses
were often located on the main marketplace, in the vicinity of the
town hall and of major commercial buildings (e.g. Wrocław (Fig. 75),
Gniezno, Poznań (Fig. 76) - Poland, Osnabrück - Germany, Amsterdam,
Gouda, Nijmegen - Netherlands), close to some other marketplace, or
important commercial street (e.g. Deventer - Netherlands, Frankfurt am
Main, Bremen, Zittau - Germany, Saint-Gallen (Fig. 77) - Switzerland)"

MV again: The advantage of using 'scales' is that there can be more than one set of them in a given city.

Muriel Vasconcellos
United States
Local time: 08:08
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 50
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22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
responsibilities of counsel


Explanation:
The weight (responsibility) of counsel seems like a possibility connected with a woman's responsibilities.

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Note added at 2 days 22 hrs (2020-11-15 12:39:09 GMT) Post-grading
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"Lo que es concejil es común a los vecinos de un pueblo, relativo al concejo."
También vale considerar que pesos son la moneda (el dinero) en Argentina, Méjico y Ecuador junto con los dólares de Estados Unidos.

"Whatever is of council (or counsel) is shared or communal among the neighbours of a district, or it's relative to council (or counsel)."

It's worth noting also that 'pesos' are the currency in Argentina and Mexico, as well as U.S. dollars in Ecuador along with 'pesos'.

Example sentence(s):
  • El peso concejil aparece en una lista de los lugares para mujeres que trabajan fuera de las casa junto con sus responsabilidades hogareñas.
  • The responsibility of counsel appears in a list of areas where women can work outside of their own homes, as well as their personal responsibilities.
Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
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Reference comments


16 mins
Reference

Reference information:
concejil

adjetivo
1.
Del concejo o relacionado con él.
"presidía el cabildo y mandaba las milicias concejiles"
2.
Que es común a todos los vecinos de un pueblo.

Ana Vozone
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 8
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1 hr peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Peso concejil

Reference information:
A very interesting document highly related to Robert´s translation project (please search under "peso" and "peso concejil"):

https://medievalistas.es/wp-content/uploads/attachments/0081...
LAS MUJERES EN LA EDAD MEDIA


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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-11-12 16:40:30 GMT)
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Sorry Robert and colleagues, but I cannot copy the link to this insightful link/reference (please accept my apologies).
This paper (a doctoral thesis) is called:
El comercio y los comerciantes en la Murcia de finales de la Edad Media a través de la documentación
Please read here in particular the info on page 129 (can´t be copied):
(...) el concejo fijó unas tiendas que contaban con un peso concejil, con el fin de concertar con él los pesos de los comercios (...)

In the Middle Ages there were remarkable differences between the scales systems and the weighing methods. Solution: Some local authorities established "official" scales (= pesos concejiles) to carry out weighing activities.



LAS MUJERES EN LA EDAD MEDIA

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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-11-12 16:47:22 GMT)
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Glad to know, Robert. I hope it´s useful and helps you establish the proper translation. Best of luck!

Toni Castano
Spain
Works in field
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 8
Note to reference poster
Asker: The link works. Thanks, Toni!


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  philgoddard: But what's your feeling as a native speaker about "market", which is what the DRAE says?
28 mins
  -> Hi Phil. My feeling is clearly expressed in the discussion box: "Market" is wrong here. I don´t have any time now, but I shall try to find some evidence later.
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