den såkalte samnorsktanken

English translation: the so-called Common Norwegian idea

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Norwegian term or phrase:den såkalte samnorsktanken
English translation:the so-called Common Norwegian idea
Entered by: trsk2000 (X)

22:14 Jan 3, 2011
Norwegian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics / Norwegian Language
Norwegian term or phrase: den såkalte samnorsktanken
En tilnærming mellom de to offisielle språkformene bokmål og nynorsk (den såkalte samnorsktanken)

In the grand scheme of things, a not too challenging sentence to translate!
But of course those outside of Norway will most likely be unaware of the language situation, so my proposed translation for the target readership is....

'Merging the two official written standards of Norwegian into one, referred to in Norway as 'samnorsktanken' (the argument in favour of a uniform written standard of Norwegian)

Would a native Norwegian please also confirm for me whether there is such a written standard as 'samnorsk' please?

Many thanks....
trsk2000 (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:12
the so-called Common Norwegian idea
Explanation:
See the reference link for some background. There was indeed a formal, politically-driven drive toward samnorsk which was officially abandoned in 2002.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2011-01-04 11:02:46 GMT)
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Here's another reference pairing "Common Norwegian" with "Samnorsk", this time by a leading scholar of Scandinavian linguistics at the University of Oslo: http://sprakrad.no/Toppmeny/Om-oss/English-and-other-languag...

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Note added at 14 hrs (2011-01-04 12:20:22 GMT)
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Samnorsk is in fact discussed in English by linguistic scholars, and when done, it's often done with reference to "Common Norwegian". Here's another example, from the book "Elites, Language, and the Politics of Identity -- The Norwegian Case in Comparative Perspective" -- http://www.sunypress.edu/p-3723-elites-language-and-the-poli...

"Further, outsiders may find it remarkable that this small nation has witnessed three versions of written Norwegian compete for official recognition over the past 100 years: Bokmål, the dominant standard, derived from Danish and widely used in urban areas; Nynorsk, the minority standard constructed out of rural western dialects; and Samnorsk (Common Norwegian), a proposed fusion of the previous two into a standard that reflected the language usage patterns of everyday Norwegians."

(And my first link came from among the Google results for "Common Norwegian" + samnorsk, not merely "Common Norwegian".)

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Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2011-01-05 15:43:07 GMT)
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Truncation ≠ clarification here, Chris S. ;-) There's a whole lot of history conveyed in "den såkalte samnorsktanken" that should be respected in the translation, IMO.
Selected response from:

Charles Ek
United States
Local time: 13:12
Grading comment
Thanks for the help and the links you sent!! Takk skal du ha:)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +2the so-called Common Norwegian idea
Charles Ek
5 -2the so-called Common Form for Norwegian idea
Donna Stevens
4 -1the idea generally known as the Common Form for Norwegian (samnorsk)
Donna Stevens


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -2
the so-called Common Form for Norwegian idea


Explanation:
The word 'form' is essential in this phrase.
Nynorsk is a reconstruction of the original Norwegian language, which was nearly lost during the 400-year Danish occupation. It is used by 25% of the Norwegian population. The rest speak Bokmål, which is the form that resembles Danish. In the media, by law, 25% of all published materials must be in nynorsk. In addition, 25% of all subtitling of TV shows and movies must be in nynorsk. In the schools, textbooks must be published in both forms.
There are many heated debates about this bokmål vs. nynorsk issue.
In the 1950's, textbooks were published in samnorsk in an effort to bring about a merging of the two forms. It was an educational disaster.

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Note added at 14 hrs (2011-01-04 12:25:17 GMT)
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British English and American English are both forms of English
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Forms_of_English
Several encyclopedias refer to the official forms of Norwegian- http://www.answers.com/topic/norwegian-language
The word 'common' has many meanings in English. Here it means 'coming from two groups'. This is not a common meaning of the word. This makes the phrase 'Common Norwegian' difficult to understand for someone who is not familiar with the issue.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2011-01-04 14:52:05 GMT)
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Perhaps a better way to say this is:
the idea commonly known as the Common Form for Norwegian

Donna Stevens
Norway
Local time: 19:12
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Charles Ek: Until this morning, I had never heard of "Common Form for Norwegian". Nor has Google yet: http://tinyurl.com/25bgxdx. On the other hand, "Common Norwegian" is widely used, including by two leading scholars of the language at the links in my answer.
1 hr
  -> Not being found in Google, just shows that it's not discussed in English. Google Common Norwegian and you'll find http://www.google.com/search?q="Common Norwegian"&hl=en&num=... not a discussion of bokmål and nynorsk.

disagree  lingo_montreal: Whether or not "Common Form" is correct, phrase syntax is not. Would have to reword saying "Idea of the Common Form..."
4 hrs
  -> Agree- it needs to be reworded.
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16 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
the idea generally known as the Common Form for Norwegian (samnorsk)


Explanation:
This is a rewording to correct syntax problems referred to in discussion. In this sense, 'Common' means coming from two groups, i.e. bokmål and nynorsk, which are the two official forms of the Norwegian language.

Donna Stevens
Norway
Local time: 19:12
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Charles Ek: In no sense is "the Common Form for Norwegian" generally known.What is generally known among linguistic scholars is that "samnorsk" is commonly translated by them as "Common Norwegian", reflecting the effort to combine the forms of Norwegian.
1 day 42 mins
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
the so-called Common Norwegian idea


Explanation:
See the reference link for some background. There was indeed a formal, politically-driven drive toward samnorsk which was officially abandoned in 2002.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2011-01-04 11:02:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here's another reference pairing "Common Norwegian" with "Samnorsk", this time by a leading scholar of Scandinavian linguistics at the University of Oslo: http://sprakrad.no/Toppmeny/Om-oss/English-and-other-languag...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2011-01-04 12:20:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Samnorsk is in fact discussed in English by linguistic scholars, and when done, it's often done with reference to "Common Norwegian". Here's another example, from the book "Elites, Language, and the Politics of Identity -- The Norwegian Case in Comparative Perspective" -- http://www.sunypress.edu/p-3723-elites-language-and-the-poli...

"Further, outsiders may find it remarkable that this small nation has witnessed three versions of written Norwegian compete for official recognition over the past 100 years: Bokmål, the dominant standard, derived from Danish and widely used in urban areas; Nynorsk, the minority standard constructed out of rural western dialects; and Samnorsk (Common Norwegian), a proposed fusion of the previous two into a standard that reflected the language usage patterns of everyday Norwegians."

(And my first link came from among the Google results for "Common Norwegian" + samnorsk, not merely "Common Norwegian".)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2011-01-05 15:43:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Truncation ≠ clarification here, Chris S. ;-) There's a whole lot of history conveyed in "den såkalte samnorsktanken" that should be respected in the translation, IMO.


    Reference: http://tinyurl.com/3af58qc
Charles Ek
United States
Local time: 13:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks for the help and the links you sent!! Takk skal du ha:)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Michele Fauble
5 hrs
  -> Thanks.

agree  lingo_montreal
16 hrs
  -> Thanks.
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