semper credere numquam se dedere

English translation: Always to believe, never to surrender

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Latin term or phrase:semper credere numquam se dedere
English translation:Always to believe, never to surrender

14:17 Jun 19, 2012
    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2012-06-23 09:54:07 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)


Latin to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
Latin term or phrase: semper credere numquam se dedere
Would this be correct for "Always believe, never give up"? Or "semper credere numquam sese dedere"

Should work as a motto.

Thanks!
Javier Mallo
Local time: 11:32
Always to believe, never to surrender
Explanation:
This is what it means literally, as it stands in the Latin. There is no intrinsic semantic difference between 'se' and 'sese', both being standard classical forms of the 3rd person reflexive pronoun. The choice depends, as it depends in Cicero and in other authors who pay attention to euphony, upon the stylistic effect (the rhythm) at which one is aiming.

On the other hand, in the best Latin 'se(se) dedere' is primarily a military term and is thus closer in meaning to English 'surrender' than to 'give up', which latter has a host of connotations, often personal, which are generally wanting in the Latin phrase. 'Deponere' ('to give up', e.g., give up hope, give up on some attempt) is probably a more appropriate rendering.
Selected response from:

Joseph Brazauskas
United States
Local time: 06:32
Grading comment
Thanks!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1Always to believe, never to surrender
Joseph Brazauskas
3 +1it depends on...
Veronika McLaren


  

Answers


8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Always to believe, never to surrender


Explanation:
This is what it means literally, as it stands in the Latin. There is no intrinsic semantic difference between 'se' and 'sese', both being standard classical forms of the 3rd person reflexive pronoun. The choice depends, as it depends in Cicero and in other authors who pay attention to euphony, upon the stylistic effect (the rhythm) at which one is aiming.

On the other hand, in the best Latin 'se(se) dedere' is primarily a military term and is thus closer in meaning to English 'surrender' than to 'give up', which latter has a host of connotations, often personal, which are generally wanting in the Latin phrase. 'Deponere' ('to give up', e.g., give up hope, give up on some attempt) is probably a more appropriate rendering.

Joseph Brazauskas
United States
Local time: 06:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 56
Grading comment
Thanks!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Veronika McLaren: A good explanation!
2 hrs
  -> Maximas tibi gratias ago, Veronica.
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
it depends on...


Explanation:
...how "authentic" you want to be. There is quite a bit of discussion on Google regarding the use of "never give up" in Latin. I would not use the infinitives, but if it is to be a motto (or even a tattoo) the choice of letters or the parallel structure may be a factor.

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Note added at 10 hrs (2012-06-20 01:10:00 GMT)
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Never surrender, give up, despair...

Veronika McLaren
Local time: 06:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Veronika. Most helpful!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Joseph Brazauskas: Praesertim de infinitivis utendis consentio.
4 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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