Durfte ich

English translation: Did I have the right to; was I justified in; was it the right thing to do

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

German term or phrase:	Durfte ich
English translation:	Did I have the right to; was I justified in; was it the right thing to do
Entered by:	Susan Welsh

15:56 Nov 24, 2018

German to English translations [Non-PRO]
Social Sciences - Psychology / prolonged grief (question is really about grammar)

German term or phrase: Durfte ich

This is from the summary of a treatment manual, and the quotes are examples of dysfunctional thoughts that are treated during the exposure session.

Zu Beginn der Sitzung werden die Gedanken besprochen, die während des schwierigsten Momentes in der Exposition oder nach der Sitzung aufgetaucht sind. In der Folge werden diese dysfunktionalen Gedanken hinterfragt. Dazu werden die einzelnen Gedanken zum einen auf ihren Realitätsgehalt und Nutzen hin geprüft (siehe Sitzung 10) und zum anderen werden Gedanken, die mit Entscheidungen in Verbindungen stehen, bei denen Normen des Patienten in Konflikt geraten sind (z.B. «***Durfte ich bei meiner Tochter die lebenserhaltenden Maßnahmen beenden?***»).

I can't figure out what "dürfen" means here in the simple past tense. The daughter must be dead, since this is about bereavement. From context, I think the relevant sentence might mean "Should I have been permitted to end my daughter's life-support measures?" or "Could I have been permitted to...?" - but the implications of these are opposite. The first implies that the bereaved person withdrew her daugher's life-support measures, and is now agonizing over whether that was the right thing to do (maybe she should not have been permitted to do that); the second implies that she was not permitted to withdraw life-support, and her daughter continued to live for a time but that was agonizing to all concerned.

The first meaning makes no sense to me, but I don't see that it works grammatically.

Thanks!

Susan Welsh KudoZ activity Questions: 524 (none open) (22 closed without grading) Answers: 462 United States
Local time: 06:12

Was I justified in

Explanation:
To me, your first inference seems to make better sense: that she authorised the withdrawal of her daughter's life support measures and is now agonising over whether or not that was the right thing to do. It appears that she is anxious as to whether or not her decision was conscionable, i.e. acceptable or permissible according to conscience.

Selected response from:

Sangeeta Joshi
India
Local time: 15:42

Grading comment

Thanks to all. This was a more useful discussion than I expected (I marked it non-PRO because I thought it was a simple matter for native speakers, but it turned out not to be). Björn's post was the most helpful, but he didn't put it up as an answer. Sangeeta was the first to steer me away from external "permission" to an internal moral decision.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +3

was I allowed to

philgoddard

3 +2

Was I justified in

Sangeeta Joshi

Was it right of me to ...

David Hollywood

Was removing my daughter's life support the right thing to do?

Kirsten Bodart

Was I (ethically) permitted to...?

Michael Martin, MA

Discussion entries: 5

Sangeeta Joshi

India

15:30 Nov 25, 2018

I would agree with Bjoern: it seems here that the person is agonising over whether or not she had the moral right to withdraw her daughter's life support system. Please refer to this definition of a moral right in ethics:
...
1. Moral Rights
***FINE POINT*** Along with the concepts of benefit and harm, one of concepts most commonly used in discussions of ethics is that of a moral right. A right is a justified claim, entitlement or assertion of what a rights-holder is due. For a person to have the moral right to have, get, or do something, there must be a moral basis or justification for the claim...
http://web.mit.edu/course/2/2.95j/readings/introethics_pt2.h...

Susan Welsh

United States

ASKER

Did I have the right to

21:09 Nov 24, 2018

Thomas and Björn seem to have nailed this, and deadlines being what they are, I am going to use that phrase. (Duden helps too.) One of them may wish to post it as an answer.

Susan Welsh

United States

ASKER

@Björn

20:59 Nov 24, 2018

It is a summary of the manual that is being published in a journal.
Thanks very much for pointing me to the book itself; the key sentence that would have enabled me to understand was OMITTED from the article text I am translating. That sentence, which comes right after "...Konflikt geraten sind", is: "Der Patient zweifelt z. B. daran, ob er eine 'richtige' Entscheidung getroffen hat." Although I have been regularly consulting the limited parts of the book that are in the online preview, I missed this. Thanks very much.

Björn Vrooman

Susan

20:33 Nov 24, 2018

Please help me to understand this.

First, what do you mean by "summary"? I found a book that contains this sentence. Right before this tidbit, it tells you all you need to (wondering whether they made the "right" decision).

Second, I concur with Thomas, though I am questioning the choice he made. Did he not just agree with Sangeeta, but went with Phil instead?

It's meaning 1c in the Duden:
"die moralische Berechtigung, das Recht haben, etwas zu tun (verneint)"
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/duerfen

Curiously enough, this meaning is not part of Phil's Wiki link.

Quite literally, it would mean whether she has the right to do this (e.g., isn't it God's decision). It's about something like this here:
https://www.deathwithdignity.org/news/2017/08/liberty-choice

Best

Susan Welsh

United States

ASKER

sorry, error in last sentence of my post

16:21 Nov 24, 2018

I meant to write: The first meaning makes MORE sense to me...

Answers

46 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

was I allowed to

Explanation:
That's how I see it.
http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/dürfen

philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 30

Notes to answerer

Asker: I don't see how this would involve conflict with the patient's values or norms, or why it would be a matter of anxiety during exposure therapy.

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

Was I justified in

Sangeeta Joshi
India
Local time: 15:42
Native speaker of:

Hindi

Grading comment

8 hrs confidence:

Was it right of me to ...

Explanation:
Subtle differences here and I think this is what is meant

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2018-11-25 00:07:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think she's doubting herself here...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2018-11-25 00:09:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

and this would be a natural way of expressing her doubts

David Hollywood
Local time: 07:12
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 14

7 hrs confidence:

Was I (ethically) permitted to...?

Explanation:
'Was I ethically permitted to withdraw my daughter's life support?'

If this had been about compliance to rules, there would have been a cut-and-dried answer for that. But the German verb 'dürfen' is not always used in this way. In this case, it's about this person's own moral compass, or his or her own decision, IMO.

Compare with this:

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2018-11-25 00:13:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Heute ist es vier Wochen her dass ich mein Kind umgebracht habe. Ich kann an manchen Tagen gut damit umgehen, aber heute ist es besonders schlimm. Ich weiss nicht ob ich je wieder unbeschwert sein kann. Ich habe diese Kind gewollt, ich liebe und vermisse dieses Kind, und ich habe meine Ronja umgebracht, weil ich kein behindertes Kind wollte. Warum ? Hundertmal hab ich das hier gelesen, keine Antwort gefunden. Durfte ich diese Entscheidung treffen ?" http://www.nachabtreibung.de/viewtopic.php?f=379&t=11120

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 06:12
Works in field
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in category: 116

Notes to answerer

Asker: Compare with what? Looks like you've got a missing link there.

20 hrs confidence:

Was removing my daughter's life support the right thing to do?

Explanation:
That's how I would paraphrase it. It's indeed about the moral aspect of it, so the strict dictionary definition of dürfen has very little to contribute to the translation.

Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:12
Native speaker of:

Dutch,

English

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:

ProZ.com term search

Search millions of term translations

Durfte ich

English translation: Did I have the right to; was I justified in; was it the right thing to do

Answers

KudoZ™ translation help

Your current localization setting

Select a language

Durfte ich

English translation: Did I have the right to; was I justified in; was it the right thing to do

Answers

KudoZ™ translation help

You have native languages that can be verified

Your current localization setting

Select a language