libre sépulture

English translation: free sepulchre

15:51 Oct 19, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Religion
French term or phrase: libre sépulture
Le choeur était réservé à l’inhumation des moines et des abbés (lors des dernières fouilles archéologiques de 2011- 2012, on y a découvert une douzaine de sépultures). Seules les personnes très fortunées pouvaient se faire enterrer en ce lieu, moyennant le versement d’une forte somme d’argent. Cette pratique porte le nom de libre sépulture.

Voilà, tout est dit !
Caroline Hughes
Local time: 16:06
English translation:free sepulchre
Explanation:
Like Phil I think that the phrase does not mean that you had to pay to be buried there,; but I differ in that I think it means that a person is given permission to be buried ( in a consecrated place nevertheless) where he/she requests - and not, for example in his/her parish church.
See here in French https://books.google.fr/books?id=cgtijCf6cgMC&pg=PA487&lpg=P...
The paragraph before "libre sépulture" explains that a convent and an abbey, after application to the Pope (in 13th century) received permission to bury the dead.
The convents that did this were obliged to "safeguard the rights of the churches which the deceased belonged to", which sounds as though they had to pay them, but they were allowed to keep for themselves a part of the "donations" given for said burial.
So that's for the French.
And for the English
https://books.google.fr/books?id=2652AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA77&lpg=PA...
"For this mine alms, the canons ..... at my death have conceded to me the free sepulchre which I have chosen amongst them"

I would say then that 'libre sépulture' and "free sepulchre" means being allowed to be buried in a place where you would not normally be buried i.e. outside your own home parish. And you would pay for that privilege.

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Note added at 33 mins (2017-10-19 16:25:27 GMT)
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ooops, I am not guessing, but deducing. (to explain confidence level)

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Note added at 36 mins (2017-10-19 16:27:55 GMT)
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The first sentence of my "explanation" says Phil says something which he did not say - sorry.
Selected response from:

katsy
Local time: 16:06
Grading comment
I'm no expert on the subject, so appreciate all of this help. I'm more than happy to accept "free sepulchre".
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
2 +2free sepulchre
katsy


Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


32 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
free sepulchre


Explanation:
Like Phil I think that the phrase does not mean that you had to pay to be buried there,; but I differ in that I think it means that a person is given permission to be buried ( in a consecrated place nevertheless) where he/she requests - and not, for example in his/her parish church.
See here in French https://books.google.fr/books?id=cgtijCf6cgMC&pg=PA487&lpg=P...
The paragraph before "libre sépulture" explains that a convent and an abbey, after application to the Pope (in 13th century) received permission to bury the dead.
The convents that did this were obliged to "safeguard the rights of the churches which the deceased belonged to", which sounds as though they had to pay them, but they were allowed to keep for themselves a part of the "donations" given for said burial.
So that's for the French.
And for the English
https://books.google.fr/books?id=2652AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA77&lpg=PA...
"For this mine alms, the canons ..... at my death have conceded to me the free sepulchre which I have chosen amongst them"

I would say then that 'libre sépulture' and "free sepulchre" means being allowed to be buried in a place where you would not normally be buried i.e. outside your own home parish. And you would pay for that privilege.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 mins (2017-10-19 16:25:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ooops, I am not guessing, but deducing. (to explain confidence level)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2017-10-19 16:27:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The first sentence of my "explanation" says Phil says something which he did not say - sorry.

katsy
Local time: 16:06
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
I'm no expert on the subject, so appreciate all of this help. I'm more than happy to accept "free sepulchre".

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: Yes, I think you're right. Neither the French nor the English gets many hits, and I haven't found a definition of the English, but it's too much of a coincidence that they both exist.
18 mins
  -> Thanks Phil :-) Yes not many hits - rather a 'pointu' subject I think; but there is a definite convergence in description of the concepts in English and French. Charles' quote - which I had also seen, would tend to confirm (I hope!)

agree  Charles Davis: // I think you've made a good case, and I agree with Phil: these two terms must mean the same thing.
26 mins
  -> Thank you Charles :-) I was hoping for your agree! And thank you for the extra references!
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