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French to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Metallurgy / Casting / ancient art
French term or phrase:Disque de miroir scorifié.
Hi again! DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. The whole catalog entry. 44085. ***Disque de miroir entièrement scorifié.*** - Argent. - Haut. environ 0 m. 15 cent., larg. environ 0 m. 16 cent., épaiss. 0 m. 002 mill. - Dahshoûr, fouilles de M. de Morgan, 1894. Tordu et ayant les contours rongés, il est informe. On peut néanmoins rétablir sa hauteur, son diamètre et son épaisseur. I also found this exact mirror described by another Egyptologist in his own 1925 catalog: Un miroir argent qui n'est plus qu'un bloc rocheux de chlorure d'argent. Cette pièce, devenue informe, laisse deviner qu'elle était ou circulaire ou elliptique. ATTEMPT: 44085. Mirror disk entirely slagged/turned to slag?/scorified?. -- Silver. -- Height about 15 cm, width about 16 cm, thickness 2 mm. -- Dahshur, de Morgan excavations, 1894. Twisted with worn down contours, it is shapeless. Nevertheless its height, diameter, and thickness can be re-established. Definition of scorify = to remove (impurities) from metals by forming scoria ANOTHER To reduce an ore to scoria. ISSUE: I don't know what to make of "scorifié". Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Explanation: I share the misgivings expresses by others with respect to "scorify"; like "scorifier" in French, it denotes a deliberate process of purification by reduction to scoria or dross, and I don't think it's really suitable here, even though the author has (mis?)used it in French.
Clearly the silver has deteriorated through some chemical process, and the second description, referring to silver chloride, suggests that this is beyond tarnishing. I think "corrode" is perfectly suitable and disagree with mrrafe's suggestion that this verb is not appropriate for conversion to silver chloride, even if crystallisation is involved. The following is from an account of tarnishing of silver by a conservation specialist at the Victoria and Albert Museum:
"Corrode" is quite a general term that can be applied to any degenerative process in metals by chemical action, and seems to me a safe option here.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 12 hrs (2017-06-13 07:37:11 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
By the way, I wouldn't find immersion in seawater very surprising. At the British Museum last year there was a wonderful exhibition of objects from the city of Thonis-Heracleion, in the Nile delta, which sank into the sea.
Thanks everyone! I think both proposed answers are correct and are a fine fit for my context. Wish I could select both! 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
I don't see anything technically wrong with 'completely corroded'; corrosion is general and has been used to describe silver coins that are unrecognizable as a result of chemically induced changes in color, luster and especially texture.
To my mind "corrode" doesn't necessarily imply chalky and would cover all sorts of surface mineral or crystalline deposits, whereas "deteriorate" is more general and could apply to wear, for example.
Charles, exactly, I share your concern about excessive specificity which might inadvertently exclude a meaning intended by the author, but my point is that deteriorated is less specific, and thus safer, than corroded. Deteriorated:degraded = corroded:chalky.
That's very kind to say... Right, as you said, the scorifié in this location needs to describe the mirror prima facie. A dramatic introduction works. Perhaps the 1925 writer thought it went too far. Well, I will propose it, since I have nothing to lose here, and I like close translations, even if I have to use 'Oxford commas'.
Good points. I ran in the wrong direction. The mirror is clearly not in good shape. Perhaps 'entièrement scorifié' is the dramatic 'reduced to scoria', so worse than the original ore from whence it came.
That is where you end up if you assume that "scorifié" means what it says. But there are surely problems with this reading. First, this occurs in the physical description of the mirror, and ought to refer to the state of the object rather than the production method. Second, is it in principle possible to tell, without chemical analysis, that the silver in the disc was scorified, and to what extent? Third, would it not be a tautology, in the sense that the silver used to create a mirror disc like this would necessarily have been scorified, so why mention it? Fourth, the second description emphasises severe deterioration of the metal and it would be very surprising if this were not mentioned at all in the first description.
Thanks to Angela's abundance of context, we know that the mirror was once an ore with silver chloride impurities. This could be fairly easy to scorify, maybe by converting the silver cloride to silver: https://www.finishing.com/195/29.shtml . I agree that the phrase does not sound right (entirely scorified mirror disk). Maybe work in the silver, like 'mirror disk, created entirely by scorification from silver ore'. I prefer the 1925 description.
Agree, scorify is a production method. With age, silver can react with sulfur in air (to tarnish), but it doesn't react with oxygen (to oxidize). It becomes silver chloride through long exposure to dissolved salt (NaCl), such as seawater, but I don't know any special name for that (sea change? - Shakespeare, Tempest). And the authors have given it no thought as far as one can tell from the original texts, so it might be inappropriate to insert a technical term anyway. Maybe scorifie meant simply deteriorated, as far as Author 1 was concerned. (But deteriorated or corroded may not be appropriately descriptive, because if it's AgCl, it's probably crystallized.) Maybe it isn't even silver chloride as stated by Author 2, although that seems like an unlikely mistake. Was this item in the ocean?
Scorification appears to be a deliberately introduced process, so it doesn't seem appropriate here. What do you call age-induced deterioration of silver to form silver chloride?
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Answers
11 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
mirror disc corroded
Explanation: I share the misgivings expresses by others with respect to "scorify"; like "scorifier" in French, it denotes a deliberate process of purification by reduction to scoria or dross, and I don't think it's really suitable here, even though the author has (mis?)used it in French.
Clearly the silver has deteriorated through some chemical process, and the second description, referring to silver chloride, suggests that this is beyond tarnishing. I think "corrode" is perfectly suitable and disagree with mrrafe's suggestion that this verb is not appropriate for conversion to silver chloride, even if crystallisation is involved. The following is from an account of tarnishing of silver by a conservation specialist at the Victoria and Albert Museum:
"Corrode" is quite a general term that can be applied to any degenerative process in metals by chemical action, and seems to me a safe option here.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 12 hrs (2017-06-13 07:37:11 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
By the way, I wouldn't find immersion in seawater very surprising. At the British Museum last year there was a wonderful exhibition of objects from the city of Thonis-Heracleion, in the Nile delta, which sank into the sea.
Charles Davis Spain Local time: 16:19 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks everyone! I think both proposed answers are correct and are a fine fit for my context. Wish I could select both!