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les gros cheveux

English translation: posh kids

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:les gros cheveux
English translation:posh kids
Entered by: B D Finch

11:30 Nov 10, 2014
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings / UK English
French term or phrase: les gros cheveux
This is a term used by school students from disadvantaged backgrounds, who are receiving extra help, to refer (with resentment and a feeling of inferiority) to more privileged students in a way that emphasises the separation between the two groups.

" ... ils désignent ainsi les « grands élèves » (des classes prépa du lycée) comme « les Anglais », « les gros cheveux »,
« les grosses têtes », les « fous », et leurs relations restent très rares."

While the term "gros cheveux" literally means "big hair", I understand it to mean something like "the golden-haired boys", but am not sure that would do, especially as it leaves out the girls. Shakespeare's "golden lads and lasses" is too literary by association and, unless used by a northerner, "lads and lasses" is archaic. Any other ideas, preferably, but not essentially involving hair? Terms suggested should preferably be denigrating or mildly abusive and be in current use by teens from working-class backgrounds.
B D Finch
France
Local time: 23:37
swots/brainboxes/swanks/poshies/la-di-dahs/stuck-up (people)
Explanation:
I taught for years in a city school with a mix of kids, some of whom were from disadvantaged backgrounds with junkie parents or parents in jail.

Those who were struggling and in special classes called themselves the "rubberheads" and the other kids were "swots" or "brainboxes". But those "good kids" they considered to be really stupid for studying and for following rules were known as
"Saps" or "losers"

However, if you want to keep it as a class thing (no pun intended), then "poshies", "swanks", "la-di-dahs" or just "snobs" come to mind


Can't think of anything with "hair" though

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sap
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stuck up
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snob

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Note added at 2 days6 hrs (2014-11-12 18:07:11 GMT) Post-grading
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glad to have helped.
Selected response from:

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 22:37
Grading comment
In the end, I went for "posh kids". "Swank" apparently means something quite different in US slang and one of the problems with anything too up-to-date is the speed at which slang changes, especially when it is language specifically used as a code to differentiate kids from their parents and teachers.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1'quiffs'
Adam Wilson
4the bigwigs
Terry Richards
4cleverclogs
Ruth C (X)
4swots/brainboxes/swanks/poshies/la-di-dahs/stuck-up (people)
Yvonne Gallagher
3the smarty pants/the snooty booties
AllegroTrans
3toffs
kashew
Summary of reference entries provided
les gros cheveux = les babas-cool (hippies)
Sheri P

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


52 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
'quiffs'


Explanation:
'Rah' and 'toff' are still in use, but it's true that neither transmit the visual element of 'gros cheveux'. I'd suggest using 'quiffs', which is not exactly a standard insult in English but it carries the semantic/visual element and is immediately recognisable as a class-based jibe, which makes it work - your end user won't have heard it used this way before, but will make the connection using communicative clues gained from the context. So you're basically mirroring the way people learn slang in their native language, which I think is the best way to go when translating this kind of term. It's true that when you see French teenagers, hairstyles are as recognisable as accents are in England when it comes to determining social backgrounds, so it's important to let the end user know that this is how these young people make their judgements.

Adam Wilson
France
Local time: 23:37
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Adam. I like the hair, but associate quiffs with Elvis, but also with teddy-boys, so the class refs. don't seem quite right.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Francis Marche
30 mins
neutral  AllegroTrans: Unsure whether this is sufficiently derogatory or refers to the "rich kids"
8 hrs
neutral  katsy: with AT.... for me, 'quiffs' evokes teddy boys, and early 60's adolescent boys... but not as people considered to be too big for their boots
9 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the bigwigs


Explanation:
Why not? And it keeps the hair metaphor.

Terry Richards
France
Local time: 23:37
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Terry. Not sure about that as it tends to acknowledge a position of power/influence already achieved.

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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
cleverclogs


Explanation:
or "egghead".

Ruth C (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:37
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: English
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31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the smarty pants/the snooty booties


Explanation:
To start the proverbial ball rolling.
I think you will get a wide range of suggestions. I think you may have to abandon the idea of "hair" though.
But I could be wrong.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-11-10 23:11:49 GMT)
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I don't think dated expressions are really bad, especially if the text is for the older reader such as myself. "Smart farts" may be a little OTT in some quarters, but then I don't know what kind of text you have or what the readership is.

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:37
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks AT, possibly a bit dated?

Asker: "Smart farts" is a possible variation on "smarty pants".

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23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
toffs


Explanation:
I've an old pre-war dico with toff given as "type de la haute, "gandin"!
Toffee-noses might fit, but I've no idea what today's youth would use.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 heures (2014-11-11 11:22:25 GMT)
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http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/41368/origin-of-t...

kashew
France
Local time: 23:37
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 40
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
swots/brainboxes/swanks/poshies/la-di-dahs/stuck-up (people)


Explanation:
I taught for years in a city school with a mix of kids, some of whom were from disadvantaged backgrounds with junkie parents or parents in jail.

Those who were struggling and in special classes called themselves the "rubberheads" and the other kids were "swots" or "brainboxes". But those "good kids" they considered to be really stupid for studying and for following rules were known as
"Saps" or "losers"

However, if you want to keep it as a class thing (no pun intended), then "poshies", "swanks", "la-di-dahs" or just "snobs" come to mind


Can't think of anything with "hair" though

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sap
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stuck up
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snob

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days6 hrs (2014-11-12 18:07:11 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

glad to have helped.

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 22:37
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 7
Grading comment
In the end, I went for "posh kids". "Swank" apparently means something quite different in US slang and one of the problems with anything too up-to-date is the speed at which slang changes, especially when it is language specifically used as a code to differentiate kids from their parents and teachers.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Gallagy. I think "swanks" might fit. It combines concern with appearance, pretentiousness and class, so never mind about the hair.

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Reference comments


14 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: les gros cheveux = les babas-cool (hippies)

Reference information:
I don't know if I agree with Asker's interpretation that "gros cheveux" means something like "golden-haired boys." In the following text, similar to Asker's, it says in parentheses that "les gros cheveux" are "babas-cool" (hippies). I think it is referring more literally to big or long hair, in the same way that the original hippies used to be called "long-hairs." I wouldn't discount using "hippies" or some such term here.

http://www.cairn.info/zen.php?ID_ARTICLE=ARSS_183_0086
La distance sociale entre « petits » et « grands » élèves se cristallise dans les catégories que les premiers utilisent pour désigner les seconds : ce sont « les Anglais » (i.e. hautains), « les gros cheveux » (ie. babas-cool), les « grosses têtes », ou encore, pour Julien, « des fous » qui « parlent mathématiques aux toilettes en pissant ».

Sheri P
United States
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thanks Sheri. No, I don't think that is what it means here. The idea of big hair, is probably not long hair, but full, shiny, glossy, well-cared-for hair on the heads of lycee students from the well-to-do classes, as opposed to the scruffs.


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  AllegroTrans: Aasker has explianed the context so I don't think this really works
12 hrs
agree  Jocelyne Cuenin: J'ai l'impression que c'est une traduction de "big hair". Dans le "glamour" allemand : Big Hair Style = Original-Hippie (du volume, des cheveux ondulés, bouclés...). https://fr-fr.facebook.com/pages/Chronique-dOrnella-Vie-de-f...
17 hrs
  -> Merci pour cette précision Petitavoine :-)
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