pointe frontale du sillon naturel

English translation: the forward point of the natural groove

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:pointe frontale du sillon naturel
English translation:the forward point of the natural groove
Entered by: B D Finch

01:51 Feb 17, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Medical - Cosmetics, Beauty / Hair coloring
French term or phrase: pointe frontale du sillon naturel
"Tracer une courbe partant de la pointe frontale du sillon naturel, allant de la tempe, passant sous l’os occipital, puis sur la tempe opposée et se terminant sur la pointe du sillon naturel."

This comes from a PowerPoint presentation used for training hair colorists. I've been really struggling with this expression. Is the "sillon naturel" the fissure between the lobes? If so, what does "pointe frontale" and then "pointe" refer to? I'd really appreciate any clarification.

Thank you,
Karen
Karen Tucker (X)
United States
Local time: 10:56
the forward point of the natural groove
Explanation:
Note that this is hairdressing/massage, not brain surgery, so no "fissure between the lobes"!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_bone
The temporal bones are situated at the sides and base of the skull, and lateral to the temporal ... It separates occipital bone and mastoid portion of temporal bone. ... in the concavity of which is a groove, the tympanic sulcus, for the attachment of ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K3cSJV6Pl0oC
1845
In the Occipital Bone there are one single and two pairs of holes proper to it. ... The Temple-bone is of very irregular shape, consisting of three distinct parts: ... in the living subject: upon its point is a groove for the passage of the occipital artery; ...

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Note added at 8 hrs (2017-02-17 10:50:38 GMT)
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integrativeworks.com/understanding-trigger-points-neck-ache-headache-eye-ache/People don't usually talk to their massage therapist about blurred vision or anxiety ... Stretching the front of your neck by taking your head back is something that you ... but a good sub-occipital and lamina groove routine usually releases this for longer term relief.
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 15:56
Grading comment
Much thanks to both BD and Nikki for your help and extensive explanations.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4the forward point of the natural groove
B D Finch
Summary of reference entries provided
head anatomy for hairdressers
Nikki Scott-Despaigne

Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the forward point of the natural groove


Explanation:
Note that this is hairdressing/massage, not brain surgery, so no "fissure between the lobes"!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_bone
The temporal bones are situated at the sides and base of the skull, and lateral to the temporal ... It separates occipital bone and mastoid portion of temporal bone. ... in the concavity of which is a groove, the tympanic sulcus, for the attachment of ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=K3cSJV6Pl0oC
1845
In the Occipital Bone there are one single and two pairs of holes proper to it. ... The Temple-bone is of very irregular shape, consisting of three distinct parts: ... in the living subject: upon its point is a groove for the passage of the occipital artery; ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2017-02-17 10:50:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

integrativeworks.com/understanding-trigger-points-neck-ache-headache-eye-ache/People don't usually talk to their massage therapist about blurred vision or anxiety ... Stretching the front of your neck by taking your head back is something that you ... but a good sub-occipital and lamina groove routine usually releases this for longer term relief.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 15:56
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 37
Grading comment
Much thanks to both BD and Nikki for your help and extensive explanations.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Perhaps more commonly defined in EN in relation to the parietal ridge, thus "forward point just under the parietal ridge"?
1 day 9 hrs
  -> Having read your reference comment, I think that this could be lower than that and it's probably best not to be more precise in translation than the ST.
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Reference comments


1 day 17 hrs
Reference: head anatomy for hairdressers

Reference information:
The way the French is expressed begs the question which "sillon naturel".
I suspect it is referring to the groove under the parietal ridge.
This is not about brain anatomy and at the same time it is a little, incidentally. French also uses the term "sillon" more often for a groove than we would anyway.

I don't know about you, but without more context, I cannot make out specifically which "natural groove" is being described. At first, I thought "pointe frontale" might be the centre forehead part of the hairline, but there is no clear indication that (after having gone over the temple and then moving to below the occipital bone (nape) and then continuing to the other side) of any movement upwards to the centre forehead. Might it not in fact be the "parietal ridge"?

http://www.hairfinder.com/info/anatomyhead.htm "Parietal Ridge: This is the point where the top of the head curves downward to become the sides of the head. The term parietal ridge refers to the bony ridge along the upper sides of the head. The Parietal Ridge begins approximately three finger-widths above the top of the ear."

BUT... that means defining a ridge rather than the groove, i.e. defining the sulcus (groove) by the gyrus (ridge). You might neeed to check which particular groove is being described. If you follow the description, then it does seem to describe a "groove under the parietal ridge". http://headspace.sydneyinstitute.wikispaces.net/Hair Cutting... & Sections

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Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2017-02-18 19:47:36 GMT)
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http://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/~kimly/cosm/Hairstyle/w1_b...

http://beautysupply.about.com/od/cutting/tp/Anatomy-Of-The-H...

http://www.hairboutique.com/blogs_p/index.php/2009/01/27/hai...

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Note to reference poster
Asker: Yes, I believe you're correct. I checked "parietal ridge" and found many references to hair cutting. I, too, thought at first they were talking about the hairline but the accompanying picture shows the curve drawn behind a dotted line that clearly indicates the hairline. Maybe they were trying to avoid technical language but I found many references to "parietal ridge" in hair cutting guides in English. I do think it would be clearer to say "the groove under the parietal ridge," although the picture does aid understanding. Could you resubmit this as an answer so I can give you the points?

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