mises à l’index

12:42 Sep 8, 2019 

"I hope my post didn't suggest anything like this." Well yes, it certainly did or I wouldn't have responded as such!
Note that Stalin was only gaining power at this time so things not as bad as they got later...And the Art Deco movement was having an influence on popular architecture and Stalin wanted "palaces for the people"
You don't seem to know the meaning of the words I've suggested or see how close they are to the idea of "blacklist" (which can't be used here) As I said, these are strong verbs, not used lightly.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/repudia...
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/margina...
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/fall out of favor
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/rebuff and just thought of "spurn" https://www.wordnik.com/words/spurn

05:46 Sep 8, 2019 

"Are you really saying that anyone can translate an art history text by just looking up words in a dictionary... be clueless, with no specialist knowledge...?" I hope my post didn't suggest anything like this. I was referring to the author's informed decision to use mettre à l'index, and to our responsability, as translators, to translate it as accurately as possible. "No need for any note…I never said or inferred that the ST is badly written at all on any of these questions" I didn't imply that you did and I did say in my post that I think the source text is very well written. Adding a note applies generally, if we, as translators, have queries about the text we're translating.<p>”I do think you shouldn’t get hung up on ONE possible meaning of a term.” I agree, which is why I gave different examples in my post above. Bon dimanche !

22:38 Sep 7, 2019 

@Ph_B
I am quite shocked by your post. Are you really saying that anyone can translate an art history text by just looking up words in a dictionary? So, be clueless, with no specialist knowledge required as long as there’s a dictionary? Or, for that matter, no concerns about not being native in either the source or target language?
As for the translation of the term, the words I've offered "repudiate", "marginalise", "fall out of favour" and more recently "rebuff" are all strong, especially the first 2, and certainly any of the architects finding themselves in this position would not have been in a happy place. These terms fit the context of the era, the history of the movement, and the term "mettre à l'index". You cannot use "blacklist", "ban", "dismiss" or "suppress" since none of these happened in this case.
No need for any note. I am not changing the source text at all (I never do), but translating it faithfully into correct English. And no, I never said or inferred that the ST is badly written at all on any of these questions. I do think you shouldn’t get hung up on ONE possible meaning of a term. The terms I've offered are close to the meaning you cite in the context

18:15 Sep 7, 2019 

" you underestimate the task and responsibility of a translator " - not if you write that note I mentioned. As I see it, changing the text is the editor's (if any)/the client's responsability, not the translator's. And the strength of the French expression fits in well with Stalin's ways of doing things. Bon dimanche !

17:56 Sep 7, 2019 

I think you underestimate the task and responsibility of a translator in this context. Blacklist is inappropriate and "mises à l’index" need not be taken to mean that, though during Stalin's time it would have been wise for architects and those commissioning buildings to watch their backs.

15:43 Sep 7, 2019 

I trust you on what happened or didn't happen to this style of architecture, and while it's useful to know, so that the translation is as accurate as possible, we're asked to translate, not to write as art historians. The author chose to use mettre à l'index and that's what we have to translate. Given the nature/topic of the text - not exactly your usual post on social media -, I'll assume the author is literate enough to have chosen their words carefully. As I mentioned in my answer, the expression can be used without reference to the Catholic Church (its historical source). The usual reliable dictionaries will, in that non-Catholic context, talk of exclusion, condamnation (ATILf) or of interdiction, défense d'utiliser (Littré). That's strong, as I hope you'll agree, and so the English translation must be just as strong. R&C and Larousse translate it as "blacklist". I'll leave it to native speakers of English to decide if and how "blacklist" and its variations can be used here. If we feel, as translators, that the source text is wrong or badly written, we can write a note to that effect, but surely we should remain faithful to the source text?

12:58 Sep 7, 2019 

Edna ,
Constructivist architecture was NEVER officially banned, blacklisted or dismissed at all. There was a reaction against it as it was considered to be TOO modern and ugly. Following a major competition in 1932 "Stalinist" (or Post Modern) architecture became more popular where more historical/classical elements were included i.e. "reconnaissance des acquis du passé" (a sort of picking and choosing elements of classical architecture). But there was a "Post-Constructivist" period as well with constructivist elements included so it wasn't an overnight changeover at all. "Neoclassical" or "Soviet realism" style then became popular up to the 1950s. But the Constuctivist movement continued to influence a lot of architecture and had a bit of a revival in the 1960s https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Constructivist_ar...

11:58 Sep 7, 2019 

i.e. the "Index Librorum Prohibitorum" was aimed at books - as expression of heretic ideas.

13:57 Sep 6, 2019 

I think that the target of ostracism has to be human.

12:38 Sep 6, 2019 

the previous sentence:Sa poétique constructiviste fut à tel point honnie par les détracteurs de l’architecture innovante que dès 1930 ils lancèrent l’injure réactionnaire de « léonidisation » de l’architecture, ce au profit d’une sinistre désescalade qu’ils nommaient « reconnaissance des acquis du passé ».

12:04 Sep 6, 2019 

Since your extract begins with "ainsi", we need to know what it says before this.

10:39 Sep 6, 2019 

gives the meaning here.

10:39 Sep 6, 2019 

Thank you. I thought of the term ostracised.

10:24 Sep 6, 2019 

blacklisting