https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/architecture/6653873-coursive.html
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la mise en sécurité
concentration en H30+

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Coursive

English translation:

Access deck

Apr 22, 2019 15:43
5 yrs ago
12 viewers *
French term

Coursive

French to English Tech/Engineering Architecture
In French, "coursive" and "couloir" are to different types of circulation for housing, with each one its advantages and disadvantage.

For the moment, I've found:
"Exterior corridor commie block: An exterior "corridor" (what is the exact name in English ? "coursive" in French) runs along one side of the building, so most flats have two natural lighted sides, one being on this exterior corridor. "

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=604687

Not sure if this is the right term

Thanks
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 Access deck
5 -1 gallery
3 +1 (covered) walkway
2 +1 external gangway
3 -1 cloister
Change log

Apr 22, 2019 15:43: Yana Dovgopol changed "Vetting" from "Needs Vetting" to "Vet OK"

Apr 22, 2019 15:43: Yana Dovgopol changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"

Apr 22, 2019 16:01: Tony M changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Tech/Engineering"

Discussion

B D Finch Apr 24, 2019:
@Mpoma Well done! A bit posh for "Ackney", which might be why they prefer not to call it deck access!
Johannes Gleim Apr 24, 2019:
@ Mpoma This works, thank you! But it shows
About 174 results (0,34 seconds)
Which one is targeted?
Mpoma Apr 24, 2019:
@Johannes Just delete the ":" at the end of the URL
Mpoma Apr 24, 2019:
@Tony ... oh, but isn't that link merely something which the asker has found when researching?

Actually the question is a bit "non-conforme" because we don't really know the context. Admittedly it says "circulation for housing", so that rules out the Japanese coursives... actually I just googled "coursive logement", and that produces some pretty boring such balconies. The *question*, however, is simply the word "coursive" on its own. But, yep, OK, boring balconies it is!
Johannes Gleim Apr 24, 2019:
@ Mpoma Can you please check your first link
https://hackney.gov.uk/article/5330/Quadra-E8: Is it broken? It returns: "Runtime Error"
Tony M Apr 24, 2019:
@ mpoma Your wrote: "...these boring balconies leading to flats" — and that's exactly the point, what we have here: boring balconies on Communist-era blocks of flats.
Mpoma Apr 24, 2019:
@BDF https://hackney.gov.uk/article/5330/Quadra-E8: "all apartments are either dual or triple aspect with gallery access to avoid internal corridors." ... 'Ackney mate, 'Ackney! English English enough for you, or what?

As for "walkways", the point is really to find a term which is broad enough. "Coursive" may often mean these boring balconies leading to flats, but they can also mean more exotic things, e.g. in "old hospitals" or in Japan: https://japon-fr.com/photos-du-japon coursive.htm
Johannes Gleim Apr 24, 2019:
@ Mpoma I had the same impression. Your are right, Dicobat is reliable. I wonder that peers question it's reliability, if they know other expressions. Most terms have different synonyms and the question is only, what is the best.
B D Finch Apr 24, 2019:
@Mpoma Unlike your cloisters, which do at least run the length of walls with doors leading off, "covered walkways" tend to either be at ground level and/or form a link between buildings.

In fact, Dicobat translates "coursive" as "gallery" and IMHO that is an error. Sure you can find examples of the word "gallery" being used in this context. However, those examples tend to come from non-anglophone sources (like your Norwegian one).
Mpoma Apr 24, 2019:
"Gallery access" I think Johannes is coming under attack unfairly ... google "gallery access housing" and lots of things come up, including this page http://www.architecturenorway.no/projects/dwelling/stoperiga... (search "gallery"). In fact the sole problem I have with this is that these types of structures providing access to flats are a subset of "(covered) walkway", which I think is the most accurate term.
B D Finch Apr 24, 2019:
@Johannes Certainly, access to flats could be from a gallery. However, as that would be a very specific and unusual design, it would be wrong to use the word "gallery" unless you are certain that was what was meant. In this instance, there is no reason to suppose that it is a gallery.
Tony M Apr 24, 2019:
@ Johannes (4) Talking of references — can you please provide even so much as ONE reference where 'gallery' is used in a native EN document as a technical term directly associated with access on blocks of flats?
Johannes Gleim Apr 24, 2019:
@ Tony One only question: Why not? I miss substantiations for your statement about 'false friends'. The person stating something have to prove it.
Johannes Gleim Apr 24, 2019:
@ BD This is a too narrow interpretation acc. MHO. The galleries I referred to are used for access to flats, same as your proposal.
B D Finch Apr 23, 2019:
@Johannes Agree with Tony; "gallery" is quite wrong here. Galleries are raised, usually interior, structures for viewing or being viewed (e.g. minstrel galleries).
Tony M Apr 23, 2019:
@ Johannes (3) And therein lies the whole problem!
You are too glibly swallowing the faux ami — 'galérie' in FR canNOT be systematically translated by 'gallery' in EN in all cases... this being one where it can't!
Johannes Gleim Apr 23, 2019:
@ Raoul No problem with this definition:《 covered outdoor gallery serving several dwellings or premises; sometimes, interior gallery of some modern ensembles 》.

Thank you very much!
Raoul COLIN (X) Apr 23, 2019:
NICOBAT Architectrure dictionnary - coursive copie de la définition - galerie extérieure couverte qui dessert plusieurs logements ou locaux; parfois, galerie intérieure de certains ensembles modernes
Johannes Gleim Apr 23, 2019:
@ Tony Ok, you deleted your discussion entry "as soon as a proper answer was posted". On the other hand you admitted that the term gangway is not your favourite translation. This looks being contradictorily acc. MHO.

BTW, I checked the supporting references for "gangway" and found that 3 of 4 are off the subject.

As I am not on this page to battle with you or other peers, but to help the asker, I let the decision to him trusting he will select the most appropriate term for his text based on the provided arguments and references.
Tony M Apr 23, 2019:
@ Johannes (2) By the way, I deleted my initial discussion post as soon as a proper answer was posted, which I considered more helpful to Asker than my own comment; this had absolutely no cnnnection whatsoever with your suggestion, posted much later.
Tony M Apr 23, 2019:
@ Johannes You seem to be confusing FR > EN and EN > FR translation; word-for-word backtranslation is rarely helpful, because so many words have multiple meanings in both languages.
'Gangway' is one possible translation for 'coursive' in this context (though it wouldn't be my favourite); 'balcony' is another; however, 'gallery' is simply NOT possible here.
You seem not to understand that in EN (and i'm sure also in your native language), words that are similar in meaning are not necessarily all precisely interchangeable, each is likely to be used in specific contexts.
Johannes Gleim Apr 23, 2019:
@ Nikki Please do not mismatch a gangway - as shown on your picture - with a gallery! your picture does not show a "coursive", but a passerelle. Please search for bilingual pages!

Some links to start with:
https://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/search?source=auto&q...
https://context.reverso.net/translation/english-french/gangw...
https://www.google.de/search?q="gangway" "passerelle"&lr=&hl...
• Au sens premier, le mot passerelle désigne un pont habituellement de taille restreinte. On peut aussi trouver les abréviations « ple » (FANTOIR) ou « plle » (Commission de toponymie du Québec1) pour désigner une passerelle.
• En architecture, une passerelle peut désigner un pont ou un passage aérien à l'usage exclusif des piétons voire des cyclistes, pouvant parfois être couverte, fermée ou vitrée.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passerelle
Kim Metzger Apr 22, 2019:
A gangway is not just a nautical term. It' also a passageway through which to enter or leave, such as one between seating areas in an auditorium, or between two buildings. See pretty picture: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-modern-architecture-gangwa...
Kim Metzger Apr 22, 2019:
Wrong term gallery is coursière https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/architecture/55...
Johannes Gleim Apr 22, 2019:
Please compare Wikipedia's definitions: In American English, walkway is a composite or umbrella term for all engineered surfaces or structures which support the use of trails.
The New Oxford American Dictionary also defines a walkway as "a passage or path for walking along, esp. a raised passageway connecting different sections of a building or a wide path in a park or garden." 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkway

A gangway is a narrow passage that joins the quarterdeck to the forecastle of a sailing ship. The term is also extended to mean the narrow passages used to board or disembark ships.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangway_(nautical)

Gallery may refer to:
• Gallery, a horizontal passage in an underground mine
:
• Balcony, located inside or outside of a building, such as a theater, concert hall, church, courtroom, or legislative chamber
• Gallery (theatre), a balcony inside a theater
• Minstrels' gallery, a balcony used by performing musicians
• Observation deck, usually on the upper floors of a building, used to afford visitors a long-distance view
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallery
Kim Metzger Apr 22, 2019:
external walkway or walkway https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/coursive-intérieure-...
gangway - A passageway through which to enter or leave, such as one between seating areas in an auditorium, or between two buildings. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gangway
Raoul COLIN (X) Apr 22, 2019:
coursive in French - same as coursive in English The definition you mention is exactly the same as the one listed for the definition of coursive in the architecture dictionary in French called Dicobat (paper dictionary)

Proposed translations

+2
20 hrs
Selected

Access deck

That's the UK term.

See photo here: https://www.architecture.com/image-library/RIBApix/image-inf...

https://www2.gov.scot/resource/buildingstandards/2016Domesti...
"Access deck means a structure having a surface in the open air suitable for ingress and egress of persons to a building. "

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Note added at 20 hrs (2019-04-23 11:54:35 GMT)
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https://books.google.fr/books?isbn=1843837838
David Burke - 2014 - ‎History
As I was doing a piece to camera outside Deutsch's flat at No. ... Murder on the Orient Express while chatting on the walkways in their deck-access block of flats.

https://books.google.fr/books?isbn=1136367217
Rozz Algar, ‎Ray Tricker - 2010 - ‎Technology & Engineering
D 2.14.3 Where access to the flats or maisonettes is from an open-access balcony or an access deck, openable ventilators need not be installed provided the ...
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Actually, looking at your last ref., "open-access balcony" looks possibly the best bet?
36 mins
When I worked in housing management, we always called them access decks// Thanks Tony.
agree Kim Metzger
7 hrs
Thanks Kim
neutral Johannes Gleim : Ref. 3 and 4 show no "access deck", but book titles.
19 hrs
What an odd objection! They are books that mention access decks (deck-access) to blocks of flats, the first in a context that shows the term to be in colloquial use and the second in a technical/regulatory context.
neutral Mpoma : you don't appear to have produced any definition of the FR term, or illustration of what "coursive" means...
1 day 1 hr
The Asker provided a correct definition of "coursive".
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks I think this one fits well in the description I wanna give to my project"
+1
57 mins

external gangway

https://www.123rf.com/photo_70067230_building-facade-with-ex...

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Note added at 1 hr (2019-04-22 16:44:14 GMT)
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https://www.property118.com/landlord-indemnity-insurance/749...
29 May 2015 - In Edwards v Kumarasamy, the tenant rented a flat in a block from the ... on the external gangway that my tenants used for access to my flat.
Anti-Slip Floor Sheets | Flat Sheets | Non-Slip Flooring | GRP Plate
https://www.suigeneris.co.uk/anti_slip_flooring/floor_sheets...
Safe Tread GRP gritted flat sheets for floors. Sheet flooring designed to be fitted to walkways, gangways, disabled access ramps, factory floors, bridges, landing areas, platforms, piers and pontoons. ... For interior or exterior environments.

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Note added at 1 hr (2019-04-22 16:44:52 GMT)
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Translate coursive from French to English
https://www.interglot.com/dictionary/fr/en/translate/coursiv...
Coursive translated from French to English including synonyms, definitions, and related words. ... la coursive. the gangway · gangway [the ~] noun ...
Peer comment(s):
agree Kim Metzger : https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-modern-architecture-gangwa...
2 hrs
disagree Johannes Gleim : Sorry, but "gangway" is a nautical term and external only if used to enter a ship.
3 hrs
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : One possible solution, not uniquely nautical as seen here: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-glass-gangway-between-two-...
6 hrs
neutral katsy : I honestly don't know for gangway, but your quotes include the term "walkway" which seems to me to be a good possibility
18 hrs
neutral B D Finch : Gangways tend to be narrow, often temporary, and for getting from point A to point B, also used for narrow aisles between seats in a theatre.
1 day 1 hr
neutral Mpoma : Tend to agree with BDF. I think they are either nautical or technical, and I think they are either temporary or mobile (or both).
1 day 22 hrs
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-1
1 hr

gallery

"gangway" is a maritime term. I prefer "gallery in the given context.

Coursive – balcon d’accès
(Dictionnaire Technique du bâtiment et des travaux publics)

coursive
nom féminin
(de coursie)
• Galerie de circulation (extérieure, en façade) ou couloir (intérieur) desservant plusieurs logements ou locaux.
• Passage étroit à l'intérieur d'un navire.
https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/coursive/1995...

coursive
n.f. [ de l'it. corsiva, lieu où l'on peut courir ]
1. Passage, couloir aménagé à l'intérieur d'un navire, dans le sens de la longueur.
2. Galerie de circulation desservant plusieurs logements, plusieurs locaux.
https://fr.thefreedictionary.com/coursives

Accès: balcon d'accès, rehausses d'accès, crosse escamotable, palier supérieur avec marches ou échelons pour franchissement d'acrotère, sortie sur mesure, etc.
jomy.be
handrail, horizontal access balcony or upper balcony with rungs or steps to cross roof edges, custom made access solutions, etc.
jomy.be

Lac Tremblant - 3
chambres à coucher, grand balcon, accès à la plage face au Pinoteau, Piscine et bain tourbillon à votre disposition.
laurentianproperty.com
Lac Tremblant- 3 bedrooms, large balcony, access to the beach. Pool and hot tub at your disposal.
laurentianproperty.com
https://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/search?source=auto&q...

"Le Magasin central des imprimés / La Coursive nord-sud"; signed and dated in pencil lower right margin: "Eric Desmazières – 2013"
https://childsgallery.com/work/la-coursive-nord-sud-from-le-...
(shows a gallery inside of a building)

Photo: “Coursive extérieur donnant accès aux chambres”
https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g34145-d...

Gallery of LESS / AAVP Architecture - 12 |
Pinterest
Image 12 of 24 from gallery of LESS / AAVP Architecture. Photograph by Luc Boegly
https://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=https://i.pinimg.com/ori...

Guesthouse building with gallery and shutters seen in Key West, Florida.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/atelier_tee/5722370587
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Perhaps with minstrels on it?
1 day 46 mins
Not for minstrels, but a (exterior or interior) gallery giving access to flats on the upper floor.
disagree Tony M : 'gangway' is by no means solely a nautical term; however, 'gallery' would be quite wrong here. In fact, 'open-access balcony' would not be a bad solution. 'Apple' is a circumscription [sic] for 'orange': QED.
1 day 1 hr
'open-access balcony' is a circumscription for 'galllery' as shown. // Please do not joke about serious proposals!
neutral Mpoma : I am far more open to this: see discussion, and the architectural term "gallery access". My problem is that this is only one type of coursive/walkway.
1 day 21 hrs
Yes, all depends on the final excecution, not provided by the asker (or the client?).
Something went wrong...
+1
1 day 23 hrs

(covered) walkway

Very sorry to add a second answer: but I don't do this "systematically" as spoken of by the system. And I like "cloister" so much that I don't want to squash it.

But the general, "pedestrian" English term is almost certainly just "walkway", as in, primarily, the kind of open-air balconies which are used to access flats in collective buildings. It seems they are usually "covered" or "sheltered" to stop rain falling on people, but I'm not clear whether this is an essential part of the definition.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?complete=0&hl=en&biw=1366&bi...

But photos like this tend to suggest that it includes any and all kinds of walkways:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?complete=0&hl=en&biw=1366&bi...

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Note added at 1 day 23 hrs (2019-04-24 14:50:45 GMT)
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Whoops sorry I mean this for the second link: https://japon-fr.com/photos-du-japon coursive.htm
Peer comment(s):
agree Johannes Gleim : I would accept this synonym, too.
1 hr
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-1
1 day 22 hrs

cloister

Hah! How about that? I suspect this is an example where I'll be voted down ferociously, but it works for me.

At first I thought "sheltered walkway" on the basis of this definition: "Les allées ou coursives sont des galeries sur poteaux ou portiques qui définissent les grands passages abrités dans l'architecture moderne des grands ensembles. Ils ont existé déjà dans les hôpitaux anciens, ces passages à l'air libre permettaient d'aller d'un pavillon à un autre". (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passage_(architecture) )

Then I googled images on "coursive hôpital ancien"... examples of old hospitals but also super-modern architecture made me think (a propos of the hospitals) "ah, that's a bit like... monasteries... what are they called?". A synonyms page here (https://www.macmillandictionary.com/thesaurus-category/briti... listed "cloister" and I thought "YES!".

Whether Anglophone architects of super-modern buildings with this sort of feature actually refer to these as "cloisters" is another matter. They should though. Choose this as the answer and maybe they'll start. Just joking.

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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2019-04-24 14:05:26 GMT)
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http://www.richardmurphyarchitects.com/viewItem.php?id=7428 "View from the cloistered courtyard".

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://camdenhistoryno...
"covered walkway"

... hmm, to be fair "covered walkway" is more probably the term used. Oh well.


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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2019-04-24 14:13:51 GMT)
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Suggestion: google "contemporary cloister" and look at the images. Interesting. A cloister is essentially open air, and "hugs" the building it surrounds, which may or may not be the essential point of difference between a "coursive" and a "couloir". FR for cloister is "cloître" of course.

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Note added at 1 day 23 hrs (2019-04-24 15:07:31 GMT)
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Later: sadly, now I realise that "coursive" can just mean boring outside walkways giving access to flats on a given floor in a block of flats, "cloister" is far too fancy.

However, I'd like to leave this here as I believe, looking at all sorts of photos, that the other 2 answers (apart from the broad "(covered) walkway") are also too narrow. It *can* mean "access deck" and it *can* mean "gallery"... but this is neither: https://japon-fr.com/photos-du-japon coursive.htm (nor are these "cloisters" of course!)
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : A 'cloister' is first and foremost a 'closed space', as in typically a monastery / convent courtyard; the fact that it may be partly or wholly surrounded by arcades is secondary; there is no way I can imagine this used for a block of flats!
7 mins
Haha, thanks. But in fact I disagree: monastic cloisters aren't EVER closed spaces, if you think about it. For contemporary use, check out the photo of the "cloistered courtyard" above...
neutral B D Finch : I think the residents of deck-access blocks of flats would, indeed, find this a hoot! Old French hospitals did tend to be run by nuns.
1 hr
Haha, true. Now I've twigged. But I think it's a subset of (what I feel to be) the English term with equal broadness, i.e. "(covered) walkway"... see my other answer, and photos out there generally of the wide variety of types of "coursive".
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