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English to French translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Cinema, Film, TV, Drama / Série TV
English term or phrase:deliver lambs in a force 9 gale
Bonjour à tous,
Je bloque sur une phrase "he looks as if he could deliver lambs in a force 9 gale." Il s'agit de la description d'un personnage d'une série TV irlandaise. Je ne sais pas trop comment la tourner, ou si c'est une expression dont je ne trouve pas le sens sur internet.
La phrase complète est "Sam is serious and sincere, but he’s no pushover. Even before he speaks, it’s clear that he’s from the country — he looks as if he could deliver lambs in a force 9 gale."
Explanation: Je pense qu'en français il est plus naturel de tourner la phrase en se focalisant sur la brebis qui met bas plutôt que sur l'agneau qui naît.
Voici ma proposition si vous tenez à rester fidèle à l'image du texte-source. Cela dit, je suis d'accord avec Cyril, n'importe quelle comparaison qui indique que le dénommé Sam "est un warrior" et solide gars de la campagne fait l'affaire. Et bien sûr, il faut surtout que ça sonne naturel, IMO.
Autre chose : même si l'échelle Beaufort n'est pas si connue du grand public francophone (en France en tout cas), elle ne l'est pas non plus du grand public britannique ou irlandais, à mon sens, et je garderais donc sa mention, qui me semble délibérée dans le texte anglais. Une sorte d'alliance de la campagne et de la mer, surf-and-turf-style...
Describing someone giving their weight in pounds is very American. Besides the fact that in Britain we use stones and pounds (I wouldn't have a clue what a person's weight in pounds meant without converting it, plus I changed over to kilos years ago), it's unusual for somebody's weight to be estimated in a description the way it is in the US. We'd just say they were fat, thin, well-built etc., even in a police report. So, putting numerical values in is not a general thing, but context-specific.
That's an interesting point about the EN tendency to state specific numbers more than FR does. For that reason I agree with Daryo changing "force 9 gale" to "la pire des tempêtes." I think "qu'il vent ou qu'il pleuve" isn't strong enough, though -- it doesn't evoke a force 9 gale.
If you were translating a novel or short story -- in other words a literary text -- the EN tendency to state numbers would raise an interesting dilemma. If the book says, in 3rd person narration, that a man weighs 180 pounds, then that is a 3rd person omniscient narrator (i.e. a god's-eye view). If you switch it to "assez corpulent," though, you're changing the type of narration, since that description is a characteristic that's visible to other people, not just a fact that only an omniscient narrator could know. Beware of changing the type of narration.
And on another note, "180 pounds" is not at all corpulent if the man is tall (say, 6 feet/185cm or more). Here's a fitness article showing men's bodies at different weights, to give you an idea: https://www.insider.com/how-different-men-look-at-same-weigh...
I removed my answer after reading Tony's comment. I think Tony's right. We can use 'agneler' or something around those lines in this context provided the sentence is well worded in French. Si le sens recherché = Sam brave les éléments, alors on pourrait utiliser 'qu'il vente ou qu'il pleuve'.
"Sam est tout ce qu'il y a de plus brave, mais (…). Avant même qu'il ait dit un mot, tu sait qu'il est du pays ; il fait agneler qu'il vente ou qu'il pleuve."
Is the 'force 9 gale' an example of the following? (Vinay's comparative stylistics): "4.8.3.4 Measurements English seems to use specific measurements more often than French. We see this in the classification of pieces of ordinance, e.g. ‘a 3-pounder shell’, and of shotguns ‘a quarter inch bore’; it also applies to persons, where in an English novel we might read a precise measurement when French would normally only give a general indication.
He had blue eyes, close-cropped hair and weighed 180 pounds = Assez corpulent, il avait les yeux bleus et les cheveux en brosse.
"...he’s no pushover... it’s clear that he’s from the country — he looks as if he could deliver lambs in a force 9 gale."
Pour moi, la fin vient expliquer en quoi le personnage "is not a pushover": it’s clear that he’s from the country = il est bâti (grand et musclé, athlétique) he looks as if he could deliver lambs in a force 9 gale = il est fort et solide sur ses pieds.
Je pense aussi que l'agnelage n'est pas absolument nécessaire ici, du moment qu'on a l'image d'un homme fort, ou une image "pastorale" - et surtout si ce narratif est en voix on (post-synchro image) plutôt qu'en voix off.
Pour ma part, je dirais: "Sam est sérieux et sincère, mais ce n'est pas une chiffe molle. Avant même qu'il ouvre la bouche, vous voyez qu'il vient de la campagne — Il est du genre [à accoucher une brebis dans la bourrasque.] [à refermer le cellier sous une tornade.] [à soulever deux ballots de foin au bout d'une fourche.]
Variante: Il a tout [du Jos Montferrand] [d'un John Sullivan].
Ph_B (X)
France
Sandra,
13:09 Sep 11, 2019
Je suis d'accord avec votre proposition (pré, etc.). Dans le même ordre d'idée : « C'est clair qu'il est de la campagne, c'est le genre à sortir à pas d'heure/par tous les temps pour (s'occuper de) ses bêtes » (langage parlé).
Oui, c'est un point qui me chiffonne aussi, un petit peu (je pense que l'image est tout de même parlante en français mais pas aussi évidente peut-être qu'en anglais britannique ou irlandais). Cela dit, à mon sens, c'est Inès, qui a posé la question, qui est le mieux à même d'y répondre. S'il est important de garder tout son caractère irlandais à la phrase, je reste sur ma proposition "capable de faire accoucher une brebis par vent de force 9" (ou "d'aider une brebis à mettre bas par vent de force 9"). Si au contraire on peut adapter, peut-être qu'une métaphore bovine serait meilleure et on peut alors choisir d'abandonner la référence marine de "force 9". Par exemple (si ce n'est pas trop long) "il est du genre à être dans le pré même à trois heures du matin quand un vache met bas". @Asker : qu'est-ce que vous dites de tout ça ?
Ph_B (X)
France
différences culturelles ?
12:30 Sep 11, 2019
J'ai un doute sur l'utilisation de cette image auprès d'un public français. Les moutons sont peut-être très présents dans la culture irlandaise, mais est-ce qu'ils évoquent la même chose chez les Français ?
"Several people have suggested a different image needs to be used" "Could" rather than "needs". "the use of Force 9 is by no means limited to the shipping forecast, this is why it works very well in EN but as you and others have said does NOT work in FR in the same way" It does work in French, which is why I chose to keep it in my translation: it suggests countryside not far from the sea. It gives local colour and adds another layer of sense of place (Ireland in English, Brittany, Normandy or Charentes maritimes in French). Why lose that in the translation? There is also the fact that "tempête", contrary to English "gale" is landlubber language. People who live near the sea don't talk about "tempête" for strong wind on land (on its own, "tempêtes de novembre", for example, is a different matter). For what it's worth, I still think that if it were a farmer from the Midlands we were talking about, they would not say "force 9 gale" in English.
Many of us insomniac romantics listen to the shipping forecast! However, the point really is that this is an expression that's readily understood as a metaphor in the UK. Indeed, that's why it's used as the name of a brand of outdoor clothing.
Re your point 'It's just that in French we don't refer to it as lambing but as "ewe delivering",' that's not a problem; the problem is finding a French expression that conveys similar ideas.
Several people have suggested a different image needs to be used And yes, the use of Force 9 is by no means limited to the shipping forecast, this is why it works very well in EN but as you and others have said does NOT work in FR in the same way; whence my suggestion of 'tempête'.
Just to clarify, I'm not "concerned" about the image of lambing (and I don't think that my French colleagues are either). It's just that in French we don't refer to it as lambing but as "ewe delivering".
I do, because I sail, but that's my point right there: it is the shipping forecast, so rather niche, not the land weather forecast which the general public listens to. So unless you are into sailing/shipping/fishing at sea, you don't hear "force 9 gale" in English more often that you hear "coup de vent force 8 fraîchissant à 9 en fin de nuit" in French!
Hi Tony, Moving our discussion in your peer comment here as I was running out of space to answer.
Regarding how common "Force 9 gale" is in English, I disagree with you. If you look at the Met Office weather forecast, there is no mention of the Beaufort scale, even when a weather warning for wind is in place (in French météo marine parlance, a "BMS"). Heck, they don't even express wind speed in knots and go for mph! We get our fair share of gales here in Bristol, which I'm sure you'd agree has a strong maritime heritage, and never have I seen the local newspapers mention "force 9" or anything like that. So I do feel that the presence of that wording in English is significant and needs to be kept in French, to lend the same local Irish colour, from a land where fields are never far from the sea.
As for the importance of keeping the element of urgency that lambing denotes, I agree (if the Asker feels it's relevant to the context). I think my translation referencing a ewe giving birth does exactly that. Believe it or not, the fact that a ewe's or a cow's time for delivery comes as and when it wants and broods no discussion is clear to French ears as well ;).
I understand that some of our FR colleagues are concerned about the image of 'lambing' here, although it does fit well with the image of hardy country folk in Ireland (or indeed Scorland or Wales) — it's a bit like the image of raising goats on the Larzac. However, if the mention of sheep is acceptable (= local colour to lend realism to the image), it's important to retain the notion of 'lambing' — which is something urgent, which occurs willy-nilly, at any time, whether or not "convenient"; hence why one might be obliged to do it even in the teeth of a Force 9! However, if the activity is changed to something that would only be done optionally, it completely changes the sense "He'd be capable of (= stupid enough to) clip a dog's claws in the rain"
So whatever simile is chosen, it does need to be something that includes the imperative nature of doing something that would not normally be done in inclement weather.
Just to clarify the meaning. Lambing is vitally important economically for sheep farmers, but unless the farmer assists, in the event of complications the ewe and lambs might die. The sheep can be outside in remote places and lambing can happen in the middle of the night and in very bad weather or in the middle of a snowdrift. It's a messy, demanding and difficult job and most people would prefer to go to sleep or, at least, stay indoors.
So, the idea is that Sam is absolutely reliable and prepared to do hard, messy work in physically demanding conditions while also taking care of vulnerable creatures that need gentle handling. As suggested by Tony above, it also involves coping with emergency situations.
Il sait s'y prendre avec les choses de la campagne. Il peut faire la mise bas même dans une tempête. Je ne suis pas de l'Irlande donc connaît pas cette expression et je pourrais me tromper sur le sens. Plus habitué aux expressions ovines downunder. J'oublierais le vent. Peut-être, "il te tondrait un mouton en moins de deux".
Livrer des agneaux ? ou bien une mise bas par vent fort ? Il faut peut-être trouver une expression équivalente qu'on utilise pour quelqu'un de la campagne. En français de France ou canadien ?
Le personnage a-t-il à voir avec le monde de l'élevage des ovins ? auquel cas le littéral : "capable de livrer des agneaux contre un vent de force 9" ferait sens.
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Answers
2 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): -1
Livrer des agneaux dans un vent terrible / Vent atroce / Vent très fort / Tempête
Explanation: Il apparaît que le "Force 9 Gale" est une unité de mesure de l'échelle de Beaufort, afin de mesurer la puissance du vent. Le sens de la phrase serait alors que le personnage puisse livrer des agneaux ou du bétail sous des temps impossibles voir en pleine tempête.
Explanation: Here it's about the idea of 'agneler' — it suggests he is a strudy fellow, capable of looking after lambing (lots of sheep in Ireland) even during a gale (or storm) — strong winds blowing in off the Atlantic.
Not literal, of course, just a good iage for suggesting what a strong, powerful, fearless, etc. man he was.
Tony M France Local time: 05:54 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 201
peer agreement (net): -1
