| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Poll: Do you send references upon potential clients' request? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Do you send references upon potential clients' request?".
This poll was originally submitted by Oleg Delendyk. View the poll results »
| | | | | What's the use? | Apr 24, 2010 |
I don't understand why clients request references? How good are they? If you have a certain amount of years of experience, KudoZ points, WWAs, and sample translation submitted, I believe these would be more than enough to evaluate a translator if s/he is capable of taking the job or not. I wonder why the clients don't consider looking at one's profile more carefully.
| | | | Dinny 
Greece
Local time: 18:30
Italian to Danish
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| I just ask them to check out my WWA | Apr 24, 2010 |
That should be sufficient.
Dinny
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I've never had a potential client request references.
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| Personal recommendation | Apr 24, 2010 |
I have never been asked for a reference, but that is probably because my new clients almost invariably come as the result of the personal recommendation of another Proz translator. This means that my activity on Proz pages has in itself served as a reference. I would calculate that more than half of my current activity has been generated this way.
Thank you, Proz colleagues.
Noni
| | | | Suzan Hamer
Netherlands
Local time: 17:30
English
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Catherine Knight wrote:
I've never had a potential client request references.
| | | | | I would send references if asked for, | Apr 24, 2010 |
but I cannot recall ever being asked for, maybe because most of my new clients come through referrals from existing clients...
| | | | Nesrin
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:30
English to Arabic
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| I'd tell them I am an ITI member... | Apr 24, 2010 |
In the past a few agencies would ask me to fill out "freelancer forms", which involved providing references. I hated being pressured into this, and always sent the referee an apologetic email informing them that I put down their names as reference.
Which is why I was relieved when I became an ITI member, cause I knew from now on I'd simply reply to such requests by saying "To become a member of the ITI I had to provide 2 professional references, so no further references should be necessary... See more In the past a few agencies would ask me to fill out "freelancer forms", which involved providing references. I hated being pressured into this, and always sent the referee an apologetic email informing them that I put down their names as reference.
Which is why I was relieved when I became an ITI member, cause I knew from now on I'd simply reply to such requests by saying "To become a member of the ITI I had to provide 2 professional references, so no further references should be necessary".
Unfortunately, since becoming a member almost 5 years ago, I've received no such requests! ▲ Collapse
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| Publicly available works | Apr 24, 2010 |
I list many of my publicly available works (e.g. published books, commercial videos) on my CV, and observe that I am a certified public translator by my national government.
If that's not enough, and they obdurately demand my clients' contact information, they'll be showing their true colors: they actually don't have any job to offer me and, in desperation, they are trying to pinch some jobs from my clients.
So I keep a strict rule: no references given. Once I made an e... See more I list many of my publicly available works (e.g. published books, commercial videos) on my CV, and observe that I am a certified public translator by my national government.
If that's not enough, and they obdurately demand my clients' contact information, they'll be showing their true colors: they actually don't have any job to offer me and, in desperation, they are trying to pinch some jobs from my clients.
So I keep a strict rule: no references given. Once I made an exception, explained the situation to three loyal clients of mine, and gave them as references to an outsourcer. Less than 30 minutes later all three received an e-mail to the tune of Whatever this jerk does for you, we can do it better, faster, and cheaper! Try us! ... and the three clients phoned me right away to tell me all about it.
The interesting thing was that this outsourcer said they had three large jobs for me to start immediately, and that they would jeopardize their ISO XXX certification if they ever hired one translator without at least three verified references. Aflter I gave them what they wanted, it became evident that they didn't have any job whatsoever, as I had suspected from the very start.
So... no references given, and no exceptions! ▲ Collapse
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but I meant only on those forms that ask for references. I doubt they ever actually call them. Usually, when I get a new potential clients, they never ask! I send samples. I figure the work is a reference of a satisfied client. Also, I doubt that a lot of them have time to start phoning or emailing and waiting for response if they have a project that needs to get done. With full time jobs, in an office, the HR people seem to have a lot more time for this, considering how long it takes to get a r... See more but I meant only on those forms that ask for references. I doubt they ever actually call them. Usually, when I get a new potential clients, they never ask! I send samples. I figure the work is a reference of a satisfied client. Also, I doubt that a lot of them have time to start phoning or emailing and waiting for response if they have a project that needs to get done. With full time jobs, in an office, the HR people seem to have a lot more time for this, considering how long it takes to get a response. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I did once, and I regretted it | Apr 24, 2010 |
I was contacted by a potential client starting a new business with a promise that they were going to be really professional and pay top rates. They wanted the e-mail addresses of three references they could contact right away. When I wrote to ask their permission, one of them said to me, "How odd!"--but nevertheless she gave me a good reference and sent me a copy. The other two seemed a bit bemused, but they also came through.
After all that, I never got a stitch of work from the c... See more I was contacted by a potential client starting a new business with a promise that they were going to be really professional and pay top rates. They wanted the e-mail addresses of three references they could contact right away. When I wrote to ask their permission, one of them said to me, "How odd!"--but nevertheless she gave me a good reference and sent me a copy. The other two seemed a bit bemused, but they also came through.
After all that, I never got a stitch of work from the client. I don't like to "gastar meu prestigio a toa," as the Brazilians say--in other words, use up goodwill for a cause that's not worth it.
After that I decided to post some references on my website, and since then I direct people to that page. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Theo Bernards (X)
France
Local time: 17:30
English to Dutch
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| Joe the plumber doesn't give one, so why should we? | Apr 24, 2010 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
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So I keep a strict rule: no references given. Once I made an exception, explained the situation to three loyal clients of mine, and gave them as references to an outsourcer. Less than 30 minutes later all three received an e-mail to the tune of Whatever this jerk does for you, we can do it better, faster, and cheaper! Try us! ... and the three clients phoned me right away to tell me all about it.
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Apart from the situation that José describes above -scandalous market approach, btw, I hope you reported that agency to as many blacklists as you could find and gave them an earful- I don't see the need for references. Apart from various other means of making sure that one is dealing with a capable translator if one want my services, such as indeed WWA, Kudoz and short translation tests, I promise complete confidentiality to my clients, both on my website and in communicating with prospects. That even goes as far as not disclosing any information about even a document that is shown to me for the purpose of making an estimate of time and cost. Why on earth would I want to break that iron-clad guarantee by disclosing a client's contact details in the hope of getting an order from another possible client? Very counterproductive, very bad business practice and yes, there is always the danger of somebody fishing in my clients pool, as José points out.
References are for job seeking. If you need an independent plumber to repair your toilet you don't ask for references, so why should an independent person repairing a language deficiency provide one to a possible client?
And yes, I do work for a number of ISO-certified translation agencies and they all asked for references in the initial contacts, an no, I did not give them, pointing out they would not want me to give their details to any prospective client of mine. Yet I still work for these agencies from time to time, so the ISO-requirement is not as strictly adhered to as some agencies want you to believe.
Anyway, that is my two-pence for this forum.
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Wow! What a bunch of bad experiences people have here concerning references! I was so amazed!
In my case, it's exactly the opposite. Since the beginning, I have posted three references on my CV, They are very reliable people and friends. They told me they have been contacted by companies (between 2 and 5 times, and who knows, perhaps more) to write a short message about my work performance.
They wrote me back with the gossip, that's how I know ... See more Wow! What a bunch of bad experiences people have here concerning references! I was so amazed!
In my case, it's exactly the opposite. Since the beginning, I have posted three references on my CV, They are very reliable people and friends. They told me they have been contacted by companies (between 2 and 5 times, and who knows, perhaps more) to write a short message about my work performance.
They wrote me back with the gossip, that's how I know and they prepared messages as requested. A couple of them even sent me a copy of their message, so that I was aware of what they wrote or for if I wanted to correct any part. And then they sent their messages. At least I know that two companies wrote me back with a positive feedback and hired me to perform translation jobs, based on my references. So I think it was really worth.
And just a note, here in Peru every single service worker you hire (carpenter, plumber, maid, waiter, chauffeur, electrician, etc.) has to be recommended and give references of the places and people they've worked in/for. Else you could grab the yellow pages or any other brochure slipped under your door and be hiring somebody you absolutely don't know who could be a robber or someone completely unprofessional. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 16:30
German to English
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In memoriam | Hardly get asked | Apr 24, 2010 |
Dinny wrote: WWA should be sufficient. Dinny
It is sufficient IMO. And if samples are asked for, I direct them to my portfolio first.
| | | | | Regarding references | Apr 24, 2010 |
Is it a good practice to answer on a reference request the following:
Please be advised, that due to non disclosure agreements and the general code of ethics of translation trade, the identity of my customers is confidential, thus not available even upon request?
Giving out 2 or 3 references is common practice when applying for a permanent position, but as freelancers we cannot do that: we are legally and ethically bound to keep any and all information regarding our cli... See more Is it a good practice to answer on a reference request the following:
Please be advised, that due to non disclosure agreements and the general code of ethics of translation trade, the identity of my customers is confidential, thus not available even upon request?
Giving out 2 or 3 references is common practice when applying for a permanent position, but as freelancers we cannot do that: we are legally and ethically bound to keep any and all information regarding our clients confidential. Therefore, suggest to the agency that they could send you either a 200-word test or a small job for which they would have to pay you a minimum fee (“the proof of the pudding is in the eating”). This way, the agency does not take on too much risk and you would not have to breach your clients' confidentiality. ▲ Collapse
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