| Páginas no tópico: < [1 2 3 4] > | Translators being treated like cattle. Tópico cartaz: Jeff Whittaker
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Alex ST 
Indonésia
Local time: 03:53
Membro (2009)
inglês para indonésio
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FarkasAndras wrote:
The fee is obviously very, very low, but it's not entirely insane, at least not in my neck of the woods... and then, payment within 3 days can partially make up for that for many people.
No way, I will absolutely reject the offer. That offer kills every translator for becoming distinct profession in the world. This is not to say when (according to the outsourcer) the client/customer disagree with the translation result. So, who gonna pay for our electric, computer sofware and other facility that a translator needs to work? If all agency like this, then nobody is a translator anymore, let become cleaning service. (more pay)
Regards,
Alex ST
| | | | | I'm with Tomás | Jun 19, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
So my estimate is that the company goes out of business before they can even take off. Time will tell!
There may be a market segment for this, but it is unsustainable. If you can get a gist translation at no cost through Google, why on Earth would somebody pay for a human gist translation? I think that this agency's clients are specifically those who have never heard of translation before. Once they see what they get for their money (if they are able to judge), they also most likely realize that they can get the same result, faster and cheaper, elsewhere.
| | | | | Got a reply from the company | Jun 19, 2009 |
Some fresh news: I emailed the company about the low rates and how damaging they would be for their success in the long run.
They report that they are about to add a professional translation option for which they will pay 9 US$ cents (instead of 3 cents). So if they really do it, 9 cents is better, although not ideal I reckon.
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Some fresh news: I emailed the company about the low rates and how damaging they would be for their success in the long run.
They report that they are about to add a professional translation option for which they will pay 9 US$ cents (instead of 3 cents). So if they really do it, 9 cents is better, although not ideal I reckon.
Is that 9 cents for the translators or the price for their clients?
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| For the translators | Jun 19, 2009 |
Claudia Alvis wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
They report that they are about to add a professional translation option for which they will pay 9 US$ cents (instead of 3 cents). So if they really do it, 9 cents is better, although not ideal I reckon. Is that 9 cents for the translators or the price for their clients?
For the translators.
| | | | PRen (X)
Canadá
Local time: 17:53
francês para inglês
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| Good observation, and... | Jun 19, 2009 |
ViktoriaG wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
So my estimate is that the company goes out of business before they can even take off. Time will tell! There may be a market segment for this, but it is unsustainable. If you can get a gist translation at no cost through Google, why on Earth would somebody pay for a human gist translation? I think that this agency's clients are specifically those who have never heard of translation before. Once they see what they get for their money (if they are able to judge), they also most likely realize that they can get the same result, faster and cheaper, elsewhere.
I did a little test for the agency in question (http://www.proz.com/job/334550) - for $5.00 I solicited a 100 word translation and guess what - the "translator" returned a Google translation, almost word-for-word, except for a two word change that he/she managed to screw up (Google got Bloc québecois right - the "translator" changed it to Quebecois Bloc - I guess to ensure it wasn't 100% stolen!).
So, they're giving you "gist" translations from Google and charging! The new generation of agencies is upon us! And at five cents a word, you can imagine what the translator gets. Mind you, for running it through Google, five bucks for 30 seconds work isn't too bad. I suspect there is no translator and the site owner did it.
| | | | JPW (X)
Local time: 21:53
espanhol para inglês
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| It looks like... | Jun 19, 2009 |
...Viktoria's statement has become remarkably true remarkably quick!
There may be a market segment for this, but it is unsustainable.
Tomás wrote:
Some fresh news: I emailed the company about the low rates and how damaging they would be for their success in the long run.
They report that they are about to add a professional translation option for which they will pay 9 US$ cents (instead of 3 cents). So if they really do it, 9 cents is better, although not ideal I reckon.
Even they have realised it seemingly.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
Estados Unidos
Local time: 16:53
espanhol para inglês
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CRIADOR(A) DO TÓPICO | Unprofessional rate | Jun 19, 2009 |
FarkasAndras wrote:
The fee is obviously very, very low, but it's not entirely insane, at least not in my neck of the woods... and then, payment within 3 days can partially make up for that for many people.
The posting specifically requested American translators.
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
They report that they are about to add a professional translation option for which they will pay 9 US$ cents (instead of 3 cents). So if they really do it, 9 cents is better, although not ideal I reckon.
So, the .03 rate is the "unprofessional rate". What is an unprofessional translation and how can I create one?
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Jeff Whittaker wrote:
So, the .03 rate is the "unprofessional rate". What is an unprofessional translation and how can I create one?
Jeff, unfortunately you cannot create an "unprofessional translation" as you are a professional translator.
| | | | PRen (X)
Canadá
Local time: 17:53
francês para inglês
+ ...
| That's easy! | Jun 19, 2009 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
So, the .03 rate is the "unprofessional rate". What is an unprofessional translation and how can I create one?
The translation they sent me was unprofessional - apparently you just run it through Google translate and collect the big bucks!
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Alemanha
Local time: 22:53
inglês para alemão
+ ...
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
They report that they are about to add a professional translation option.
Rofl! In other words, the other translators are non-professionals (ironic).
Folks, no professional translator has to fear such companies. Relax!
| | | | Rod Walters
Japão
Local time: 05:53
japonês para inglês
| We're not translators anyway | Jun 20, 2009 |
We're "resources".
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| We've always been! | Jun 20, 2009 |
Rod Walters wrote:
We're "resources".
But this is not different from any other agency we can work for today: have you ever met a "Translator Team Manager"? I have only known of "Resource Managers" during my career as a translator. So this designation is quite common actually.
| | | | Kevin Lossner
Portugal
Local time: 21:53
alemão para inglês
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| Cattle are for slaughter | Jun 20, 2009 |
ViktoriaG wrote:
There may be a market segment for this, but it is unsustainable. If you can get a gist translation at no cost through Google, why on Earth would somebody pay for a human gist translation?
Indeed. You make a good point.
I'm not very impressed with the results of MT, but they are indeed not much worse and sometimes better than what I have seen from some persons who attach the label "translator" to themselves. Regardless of the person's formal qualifications or lack thereof, in the end what really matters is quality if the customer needs more than a dicey gist translation. And quality is a concept that is simply beyond the reach of many, including some who utter the word often. I must inevitably think of cases like an agency I know that is registered as compliant with EN 15038 but does not in fact document its processes and despite multiple passes of editing/proofreading (by non-native speakers of English) usually delivers translations with significant defects that have disastrous implications for a patent filing. Same old, same old - just another job. As long as the client doesn't notice and pays on time, everything is right with this picture, isn't it?
I don't often gloat. It's a nasty habit, and I think its personally demeaning, even if one does have enough self-control not to let it show. However, I must admit that I am having a hard time at the moment not crowing a particularly delicious victory for quality and holding the line on rates. Some to whom I have related the story privately as it still had not reached its conclusion will know where I am headed here. As I have mentioned a number of time before, my preferred business model involves a very large portion of work through agencies. I do this by choice, because *good* project management saves me time that I can devote to other things, and the chaos of some end customers tries my rather short temper. However, all agencies are not created equal, nor are all of them blessed with equal foresight and negotiation skill. Whenever I hear a statement like "you're our most expensive translator", I worry. I don't worry about me, because if they go elsewhere to get a bit more margin, they are free to do so, and their place will be taken by someone paying a higher rate overnight. I work with my set of agencies because I like the relationships; the price is usually secondary, and for the ones who grumble the most often not high at all. No, I worry about the future of that agency which is otherwise supplied with cheaper translators. You see, I'm really not that expensive, and my colleagues who deliver equivalent quality are usually priced far higher. There are exceptions to this, and I recommend these exceptions whenever I can, because I want my customers to have a bargain, even if that bargain is elsewhere.
But this continual focus on price, price, price by agencies is a form of suicide that many do not yet fully recognize and probably will not until the noose is tight and their feet are dangling without purchase. There is a particular category of translation which I do only a little of but which I particularly love because of my good memories of a small farm I once owned in Oregon. When something agricultural comes my way, I can hardly wipe the grin off my face, even if the text itself is a technical bitch. If it is marketing, I can often tap reserves of creativity that I forget about when I do other work like patents. I simply love the stuff. So I was happy to do it at my lowest rate from one of these companies that tells me I'm their "last resort" because I am "so expensive". What, pray tell, is cost really? Over the years I saw less and less of this work though my rate remained unchanged to this agency. Of course they used cheaper translators, but all English translations were rigorously reviewed by a native German speaker who often tried to correct my English. After I while I saw no more of this work, which rather saddened me. But I refused to budge on price. Why should I? My other clients generally paid much more.
Well, after seeing nothing from this end client for over three years and doing no business with this agency for something like two (mostly because we're busy, though also because they call us only as a "last resort" due to our "high rates"), I was approached by the end customer through an intermediary consultant. At first I thought it was a joke, and I admit I was quite rude and dismissive. (A neighbor boy recently came in to my office to ask if I wanted to walk the dogs with him and caught me in the middle of a telephone tirade to someone who wanted a short deadline and a discount. When I hung up I had the deadline I wanted and a punitive rush surcharge, and he went back to his mother - a fellow DE>EN translator - afterward and said "Mummy, your problem is that you're too nice. You need to be rude like Kevin and your customers will pay you more." I was rather embarrassed, though the boy was right.) This intermediary asked a lot of things that usually cause me to tell people to go to Hell, including free sample translations, a particular pet peeve of mine. I gave him four years worth of work for the client and offered my personal glossary for that company instead. No dice... he still wanted the freebie, which did *not* improve my mood. In the end I submitted the sample and came out on top of a field of carefully pre-screened candidates, screened by a man who actually knows what he is doing and does it at one of Germany's largest corporations. Now I'm looking at as much work as I want directly from a client whose products make me feel like a five-year-old at Disneyland and I wish I weren't too fat and old to do a backflip.
What about the agency? Well, I called them, because at first I thought someone was trying to poach their client, and I thought they should know and have a chance to take active measures to keep the business. The problem though - as I was told by the end customer's consultant - is that they simply could not deliver the quality required for top-quality products. I liked that line. I'll remember it the next time I'm asked to translate for the Maybach line
The herd says that all the markets are price-driven. Tell that to the folks who produce Kobe beef. The herd says that the only way to stay competitive is to keep prices low. The herd is getting hungrier but still insists on this self-destructive principle. And the market takes no pity. Cattle are indeed for slaughter.
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Alemanha
Local time: 22:53
inglês para alemão
+ ...
| Marketing is essential | Jun 20, 2009 |
Spot on, Michael!
The answer is to be selective, ignore or refuse jobs at rates which are lower than our threshold, and yes, do as Williamson suggests - don't bother to bid (except when the job meets very specific criteria that only you can set for yourself), go out into the world and start prospecting. Before I got tired of travelling the world for a bunch of anonymous shareholders and became a translator, my background was sales & marketing in multinationals, and I brought with me the "marketing approach" - I go to trade shows, send out mailings, make cold calls, in other words, I do what any sales guy does to sell his product. Today, my product is my translating services.
Exactly.
Translators are a profession - ok - but we are selling a product - our skills - and it is very short-sighted to sit back and expect the business to come to us. We have to go out to get it.
Like any other provider of professional services.
To me, the key to the problem is to be aware that you're running a business. Let's face it: not every good translator is up to that task.
Best regards,
Ralf
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